PRÜFTECHNIK VIBSCANNER VIB 5.400 Operating Instructions Manual Download Page 39 | Manualshive

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VIBSCANNER 11.2010

39

Route

• Select the measurement task:

• Connect the transducer specified in the status line to the

measurement location and to the VIBSCANNER.

• Click the joystick to start the measurement.

Selection of the
measurement task

• Click on ‘Save’. If the ‘AutoSave’ function is active,

VIBSCANNER saves the result automatically (page 23).

After saving, the next measurement starts automatical-
ly. Keep the sensor connected to the measurement
location if you wish to perform...
... several measurement tasks,
... at the same location,
... with the same sensor.



Note

Selection of the
measurement location

• Click on the measurement location in the next window.

The number (#) indicates the measurement order. If a
reference measurement (e.g. RPM) has been set up, it
will be the first measurement to be called up (page 47).

Event (p. 42)

«
...
37
38
39
40
41
...
»

Summary of Contents for VIBSCANNER VIB 5.400

Page 1: ... Dear Customer If you have any suggestions for improving this product or this manual please let us know eMail info pruftechnik com VIBSCANNER type VIB 5 400 VIB 5 400 EX Firmware version 2 0x Edition of this manual November 2010 Order number VIB 9 638 G Original manual 0044 ...

Page 2: ...easurement 28 RPM measurement 29 Shock pulse measurement bearing condition 30 Manual input of the measured value 32 Set unit and measured quantity 32 Enter the measured value 32 User defined measurement tasks 33 Level measurement DC 33 Signal measurement AC 33 Machine specific measurement tasks 34 Trend 35 Trend display 35 Zooming the trend curve 36 Trend information 37 Route 38 Options in the Rou...

Page 3: ...etup for evaluating the results 54 User defined limits 56 Transducers 58 External vibration transducers 58 Setting up the transducer 59 External temperature probes 60 External RPM transducers 61 Creating deleting transducers 62 Appendix 63 Text editor 63 File Manager 64 File manager setup 65 Tips Tricks 66 Data exchange with the PC 68 ISO 10816 3 ISO 10816 7 69 Technical data 70 Troubleshooting 72...

Page 4: ...t can lead to data loss or equipment damage This symbol denotes information and tips on operating VIBSCANNER Intended use VIBSCANNER may only be used for the measurement of machine signals in industrial environments while taking into consideration the technical specifications see Ap pendix Technical data The housing is made of an electrically conducting plastic Consequently the instrument may only...

Page 5: ...zed service technician Only original spare parts and accessories may be used Only properly functioning regularly maintained electrical equipment may be used Any defects such as broken plugs or loose sockets must be corrected immediately Damaged cables must be replaced by an authorized service technician Any alterations that affect device design or operat ing safety are not permitted Environmental ...

Page 6: ...28 VIB 5 429 and the carrying pouch VIB 5 450 are not allowed in hazardous areas VIBSCANNER EX may only be connected outside the hazardous area to a computer In hazardous areas never use the automatic chan nel switchbox VIB 5 446 Only the manual chan nel switchbox VIB 5 445 is permitted General provisions for VIBSCANNER EX The installation and operation of the device must be in accordance with the...

Page 7: ...VIBSCANNER 11 2010 7 Introduction ...

Page 8: ...ghts up during measurement with the internal RPM transducers Red LED flashes after the instrument is switched on Battery is empty flashes after the measurement Meas signal is overflow ing underflowing or is instable Repeat measurement lights up after the instrument is switched on Instrument error The relevant error message appears in the status line For the evaluation of the measurement results th...

Page 9: ... 232 connection for external trigger and output for analog signals The relevant connection cables are marked with a yellow protective rubber sleeve at the connector Internal vibration transducers Permanently installed transducers for the measurement of machine vibrations above 10 Hz and high frequency cavitation and bearing shock pulse signals Temperature The temperature sensor NiCrNi is swung out...

Page 10: ...R EX is supplied with battery power if measurements are perfomed during charging This can result in measurement errors if the battery is removed longer than 10 minutes VIBSCANNER loses the time and date setting What to do if VIBSCANNER is not in use for a prolonged period 3 4 weeks Remove the battery and leave it connected to the charger does not apply to VIBSCANNER EX Charging the battery Recharg...

Page 11: ... minutes Description Charge level of the battery The charge level of the battery appears at the bottom right of the VIBSCANNER display Level of charge black battery full Even if the battery exhibits only a very slight memory effect it should only be charged when it is completely discharged Otherwise the display of the charge level can vary from the actual charging status after several incom plete ...

Page 12: ... off to avoid deeply discharging the batteries Since a low residual current flows even when VIBSCANNER is switched off the battery should be taken out of the instrument if it is to be stored for a lengthy period of time and charged at regular intervals 1 month to avoid a complete self discharge 2 Charge and discharge the battery completely Repeated incomplete discharging charging leads to a re duc...

Page 13: ...ressing down on the joystick clicking the selection is confirmed ENTER function Function key The function key is used to move the cursor from the display field into the menu column and vice versa As a result you can delete incorrect entries in the text editor Escape key The Escape key is used to cancel a selection It enables you to return to the higher menu from a submenu Escape key Function key ...

Page 14: ...er important variables see page 16 The Σ2 screen contains measurement tasks for overall vibration that are optimized for specific machine types and RPM ranges The first line depicts the machine types and the left column defines the RPM range see page 34 c A corresponding selection screen exists for the optional program modules details of the optional modules are given in the VIBSCANNER FFT analysi...

Page 15: ... in some screens due to lack of space To display it either press the function key or move the joystick to the right b All the measurement and instrument parameters can be changed with the joystick To display text that runs off the right hand edge of the screen push the joystick to the right Menu Operation Meas parameters ...

Page 16: ...small signal currents voltages DC Measurement of small signal currents voltages AC Σ Icon for the measurement of characteristic overall val ues Clicking on it calls up the next screen that has measurement tasks VIBSCANNER setup Instrument settings Status line When a measurement task has been selected the sensor is displayed Date and time appear when the VIBSCANNER Setup symbol is highlighted Menu ...

Page 17: ...ate a new transducer in this submenu The parameters of the preselected transducer cannot be changed Only transducers that conform to the settings of the measurement setup and were activated in the VIBSCAN NER setup see page 21 can be selected Example The lower frequency limit is set to 2 Hz in the measurement setup For this reason no transducers with a linearity range that begins at 10 Hz e g inte...

Page 18: ...mply by clicking on them e g tool tips yes no The cursor for variable parameters is displayed inverted A frame appears around non variable parameters To accept the setting click on the parameter To cancel it press the Escape key If all the menu items cannot be displayed in a single window an arrow symbol appears at the upper edge of the window Move the cursor across the lower edge of the window to...

Page 19: ...illumination should be set to 0 when working in light rooms BACKLIT OFF S Illumination switches off if no action takes place in the selected period of time Never 1 240 s To switch it on again press any key SCREEN SEQUENCE Sequence of selection screens To alter the position of a screen click on the list and select the required screen TOOLTIPS In addition to the online help a brief text can be displ...

Page 20: ... DD MM YYYY MM DD YYYY YYYY MM DD DAYLIGHT SAVING Selected time corresponds to summertime Yes or wintertime No TIME ZONE Time shift for Greenwich mean time GMT TIME FORMAT HH mm ss hh mm ss xx hh mm ssxx UNITS Click on Select to set the units ISO US for the following parameters Vibration acceleration velocity displacement Temperature Speed Frequency Mass only in the optional balancing module Lengt...

Page 21: ...ansducers then appear for selection in the list of the setup Click on Select to open the transducer list Click on the required transducer Selected transducers are marked by a tick Transducer list Available transducers with signal type SETTL OPTION IN MENU SETTLING TIME Applies only for pulse triggered measurement with the Balance FFT and Signal analysis modules In this submenu you can set the sett...

Page 22: ...pears on the dis play four weeks before the deadline Available memory in percent Hardware status instrument digital and analog board sensor carrier module joystick board LED board This information is required in the case of a repair or calibration OFFSET COMP Various factors aging temperature cause an offset in the DC circuit that increases with time Thus this offset should be balanced approximate...

Page 23: ...e period between the measurement and saving of the data this function is activated ROUTE DISPLAYS Display of the machine names or of the ID number in the database SHOW QUANTITY IN ICONS The quantity can be displayed in the measurement task symbol for spectrum and time waveform a v s PWRDR Power during route Supply voltage for sensor on the yellow channel Auto Measurement without RFID scan head e g...

Page 24: ...of bearings and cavitation using the built in vibration transducers Multimeter Note Measurement screen for vibration level Unit RMS 0 peak value Number of averages Transducer Countersink the measurement location e g with spe cial countersink bit VIB 8 610 and clean it To measure the vibration level effective vibration veloc ity 10 Hz select the vibration symbol shown on the left of the main window...

Page 25: ...ction key to move the cursor back into the display field Press the transducer against the measurement location Click the joystick ENTER to start the measurement Results display for more than 2 overall values Up to two overall values can be displayed at the same time in the results screen When measuring more than two overall values you can display the hidden measurement values by leafing up and dow...

Page 26: ...unction key to display the menu column and click on New Enter the filename max 8 characters in the text editor and click on OK Note Details on the text editor are given on page 63 If you click on a file in the file manager the measure ment data that are already saved are displayed Further options and functions in the file manager are given on page 64 Directory File Exception Trend measurement page...

Page 27: ... the trend only the results that were collected at the same measurement location under the same conditions should be saved in the file CANCEL Save process is aborted The program returns to the File Manager If the evaluation setups of the two data records are incompatible you can overwrite the older evaluation The files which are displayed in the file manager depend on which symbol is marked in the...

Page 28: ...ent The measurement stops when the temperature is stable for N consecutive measurements N is the number of averages in the Measurement setup At least three measurements must be performed After 4xN measure ments the measurement is stopped and the last mea sured value is accepted Swing out the probe and select the temperature icon in the main window Press the probe onto the object to be measured Cli...

Page 29: ...asuring distance lies between 10 and 50 cm Select the RPM symbol in the main window Point the VIBSCANNER at the shaft Click on the RPM icon to start the measurement Line up the red beam with the mark on the shaft Hold the device horizontally Every time the mark passes the beam the reflected beam generates a trigger pulse in the device and the green LED flashes on the display The measurement stops ...

Page 30: ...ducer or the TIPTECTOR the measure ment location should be prepared with the countersink bit VIB 8 610 Click on the shock pulse symbol in the main window Multimeter Note Enter the parameters required for normalization of the measured values The Mode parameter can be set by repeatedly pressing the joystick If you do not want to make normalized measurements set the Mode parameter to No normalization...

Page 31: ...easure RPM Measure the RPM as described on page 29 and then click on OK to accept the RPM value Select the Start SIM option External RPM sensor required see page 61 Multimeter Press the transducer perpendicular to the prepared measurement location with sufficient force 1 60Hz 3600 rpm 50Hz 3000 rpm The value is retained after the instrument is switched off If the transducer is permanently installe...

Page 32: ...sducer New transducer Click on the first line to display the list of manual transducers Press the function key and click on New in the menu Enter a name in the text editor Set up the following parameters SENS NAME Name of transducer text editor MEAS TYPE Measured quantity depends on the signal type SIGNAL TYPE Set to manual EDIT QUANTITY Description of the measured quantity ENGIN UNIT Unit text ed...

Page 33: ...llowing parameters FIRST LINE Opens the transducer list MEAS TYPE User defined quantity SIGNAL TYPE DC voltage or DC current EDIT QUANTITY Description of the measured quantity ENGIN UNIT Unit as engineering unit DECIMAL Decimal places of the results display SENSITIVITY Sensitivity of the transducer OFFSET Offset of the transducer To perform the measurement connect the VIBSCANNER to the transducer ...

Page 34: ...e vibration acceleration should be recorded For these cases VIBSCANNER has adapted measurement tasks ready that are located in the 2nd selection screen Each measurement icon on the screen is assigned a ma chine type top line and an RPM range left column Click on the screen symbol at the top left until selection screen Σ2 appears For a detailed description of the measurement task select the relevan...

Page 35: ...ent task in the selection screen Σ1 Σ2 and click on File in the menu to open the file manager see Note page 27 Click on the file containing the trend data File Manager see page 64 The status line displays the measured value as well as the date and time of the highlighted measurement Joystick functions Right left Move the cursor along the trend curve Top bottom Display trend for RMS 0 p p p Double ...

Page 36: ...lowing example shows the trend of several measure ments from 26 08 02 and one measurement from 09 09 02 The time axis is linear This displays the older measure ments across a width of only a few pixels and cannot be resolved any further Procedure Move the cursor to the section to be zoomed Click once with the joystick 7 measurements from 26 8 02 resolved Display range 0 01 7 measurements from 26 8...

Page 37: ...IBSCANNER 11 2010 37 Trend information The measured value date and time for each individual measurement are saved Press the function key and click on Info in the menu Display setup parameters Multimeter ...

Page 38: ...ement locations are dis played as graphics see page 45 The measurement order may differ from the graphical display Graph ics based routes can also be displayed on a text basis Settings for the Route mode are found in the VIBSCANNER setup and in the menu of the route selection window changes are only temporary Click on Route in the menu to open the route selection window Click on the required route...

Page 39: ...saves the result automatically page 23 After saving the next measurement starts automatical ly Keep the sensor connected to the measurement location if you wish to perform several measurement tasks at the same location with the same sensor Note Selection of the measurement location Click on the measurement location in the next window The number indicates the measurement order If a reference measur...

Page 40: ...ndow page 38 Here you can check the settings for the Route mode and change them if necessary Changes are only stored until the device is switched off Delete in the Route selection window page 38 Delete a route Pool Contains measurement tasks that have been added to the route as reserve measurements Pool measurements are only performed when needed The measurement order corresponds to that of the ro...

Page 41: ...tic overall value and was defined in the OMNITREND software The limit that triggers the diagnostic measurement prewarning warning alarm is defined as an adap tive trigger in the OMNITREND software If no adaptive trigger is defined the diagnostic mea surement is triggered when the smallest limit is ex ceeded Adaptive measurement tasks are marked by an arrow in the task screen Route Note The stored ...

Page 42: ...cessary enter a com ment COMM Finally click on Save Event You can store additional information on special incidents on the machine together with the measuring result You can select these data from a predefined event list EVENT and add a comment COMM to the data record if necessary Note To display text that runs off the right hand edge of the screen push the joystick to the right Route ...

Page 43: ...ute into the data collector The inspection data can then be entered onsite either as an event or choosen from a list with predefined results For example you can be asked to check the oil level at a pump Click on the Visual inspection eye icon to open the input screen The possible results were defined when setting up the measuring task in the OMNITREND PC software Click on the corresponding result ...

Page 44: ...on Route in the main window and open the route VIBSCANNER reads the number of the meas location and automatically starts the measurement task Click on Save to save the result If further tasks are stored at this VIBCODE measurement location these tasks are performed automatically If all the tasks at this measurement location have been processed the list of measurement locations is displayed If the ...

Page 45: ...Exhaust fan EX 1559 con sists of a ventilator Ventilator 12 and a drive motor Motor B145 The selected machine is surrounded by a frame to navi gate move the joystick in the corresponding direction here to the left Selection of the aggregate Aggregate graphical overview The display of the machine symbols can be deactivated in the instruments settings Route setup The route is then displayed as text ...

Page 46: ...urement locations of the motor have been completed the program jumps automatically to the next machine here Ventilator 12 In this case you can either continue to process the route by clicking on the question marks or correct the graphical route in the OMNITREND software and reload it into the instrument Gear is stored in the route but gear symbol is missing Note A question mark appears if a graphi...

Page 47: ...ed Production line speed Train speed For a single machine train e g motor gear pump a reference RPM is always recorded first The RPM value is then converted for all measurement locations on the machine train and saved together with the results of the measurements listed above The conversion factors are defined in OMNITREND and take into account the different RPM relations in the machine train e g ...

Page 48: ...e reference RPM the following warning appears The measurement location for the reference measurement is called up first before all other measurement locations on the machine An R symbol indicates the corresponding route element OKAY Measure without reference RPM GUIDE ME Call up reference measurement location CANCEL Return to measurement task selection Parameters that are not dependent on the RPM ...

Page 49: ...vidual bearings In addition the different RPM ratios e g due to gears slip are taken into account for each bearing see previous section Train speed The bearing diameter and RPM conditions are set up in OMNITREND and the production line speed is entered in VIBSCANNER before the measurement on site Example Shock pulse measurement and envelope spectra on rolling bearings with different RPMs When you ...

Page 50: ...ollowing warning appears Press Proceed to continue and record variables that are not RPM dependent e g temperature Press Enter to then enter the production line speed Press Cancel to return to the previous screen If the production line speed is changed during the route you can update the value Press the function key in the measurement location selection to open the menu Click on Line and enter the...

Page 51: ... the VIBSCANNER setup page 22 the output level can be set to 1mV ms vibration acceleration 100mV g vibration acceleration Heaphone vibration acceleration envelope for shock pulse Headphones The headphone is used to listen to the machine vibration signal vibration acceleration or the bearing signal shock pulse Measuring procedure Set the Signal output parameter in the VIBSCANNER setup to Headphones...

Page 52: ...e volume adjustment press any key In the comparison of two measurement locations adjust the volume at the louder measurement loca tions When switching to the second measurement location no new measurement may be started as otherwise the amplifier setting and thus the volume will change Autorange Consequently comparison would no longer be possible Normalized noise level With the amplifier setting 1...

Page 53: ...rm value is preset Carpet value 15 dBn Max value 35 dBn User defined limits must be set up for all further measure ment tasks Display when a limit is exceeded If a limiting value is exceeded the limit that is exceeded and the difference between both values are also displayed as well as the measured value Example Vibration velocity measurement with limiting values according to ISO 10816 3 Group 1 r...

Page 54: ... setup for evaluating the results Select the vibration icon and click on Setup Setup menu Move the joystick to the right and click on Opt optional setups Click to activate the optional setup for Evaluation The limits for vibration displacement measurement are set up in the same way Press the function key and click on OK The evaluation setup list appears ...

Page 55: ... rigid foundation Click on ISO 10816 3 to select the machine group and the type of foundation This sets the limits for Prewarning Warning and Alarm The program returns to the setup menu To view the limit click on Evaluation in the Setup menu Move the cursor to the end of the list ...

Page 56: ...e of a temperature measurement Mark the temperature symbol and click on Setup in the menu If no evaluation setup is yet active Activate the evaluation setup previous section and select a setup in the following screen e g Temp1 Click on the evaluation setup in the setup menu Click on Evaluation Name and change the name in the text editor if necessary Note ...

Page 57: ...Lower press the function key and click on Opt options in the menu Set the parameter to inactive and click on OK in the menu Press the function key and click on OK If necessary repeat the procedure for Warning and Prewarning To accept the settings press the function key in the Setup for user defined limits see page 56 and click on Save 1 Alarm 2 Alarm warning 3 Alarm warning Pre warning Note ...

Page 58: ...ucers for se lection that have parameters that conform with the settings in the measurement setup Check that the transducer or a compatible type is entered and selected in the instrument setup as an available transducer page 21 Connecting an external transducer Note Transducers External vibration transducers are required for vibration measurements on low speed machines 10 Hz 600 min 1 measurement ...

Page 59: ...er The program returns to the transducer setup Press the function key and click on Save to save the change The program returns to the Setup menu Press the Escape key twice to return to the main window To start the measurement click on the measurement icon If the transducer you are using is not installed in the VIBSCANNER you must install it Details of how to do this are given on page 62 Transducer...

Page 60: ...the probe out of the instrument 2 Connect the external probe to the QLA socket that is now free Sensor detection is not functional on this port Before the measurement you must change the transducer selected in the transducer setup see the External vibration transducer section on page 58 An external Pt100 probe is connected to the analog socket marked in blue using the cable supplied VIB 5 439 In o...

Page 61: ...he machine is at a standstill Apply a reflective mark to the shaft reflective tape VIB 3 306 Point the sensor optics toward the mark on the shaft To adjust the sensor the ball joint can be fixed in virtually any position The maximum measurement distance for the trigger sensor VIB 6 630 is 2 meters As far as possible the laser beam should be perpendicu lar to the shaft surface and shaft axis If the...

Page 62: ... must the fulfill the signal specifi cations for output voltage current 30V 20mA Select the measurement task in the main window Open the transducer setup Setup Transducer and click on the first line Attention Press the function key and click on New Transducer Enter a name for the transducer in the text editor Set up the other parameters To accept the settings press the function key and click on Sa...

Page 63: ...Place the cursor in the text line and select this with a click inverted text Press the function key Move the cursor into the character field and click on the required characters Finally click on OK To delete characters in the text line Place the cursor on the right of the character to be deleted and press the function key To cancel the input and close the text editor use the Escape key Appendix ...

Page 64: ...w 1 To open a file Click on the required file in the list or on Load in the menu to open the marked file 2 To create a directory Click on the higher directory to open it Click on MkDir Make directory and enter the directo ry name in the text editor 3 To rename a file directory Select the file directory and press the function key Click on Edit and enter the new name in the text editor 4 To delete a...

Page 65: ...ing the copy File manager setup The information except for the filenames to be displayed is determined in the file manager setup Open the Device setup Click on the Display parameter and click on File manager setup Menu always visible yes no Show in list file size save date Show in status line file size date time Show file path yes no Show free memory yes no Open on first File Directory Finally sav...

Page 66: ...he symbol and click on Help b Tooltips In addition to the online help a brief text can be displayed for each symbol marked on the screen The Tooltips function can be switched on off in the VIBSCANNER setup Option Display page 19 c If you want to carry out a measurement with the settings of a file that is already saved open this file start the measurement and save the result under a new name ...

Page 67: ... ed averaging number Application example Initially heavily fluctuating values are measured on a machine that stabilize after a certain amount of time This measurement function lets you trace the incoming values on the screen and to start recording the data only when the values have stabilized f Signal check 2 channel measurement To check the signal before a measurement with the automatic switchbox...

Page 68: ...ed the USB to serial cable adapter VIB 5 448 provided Start the data transfer in OMNITREND see OMNI TREND Online Help for details How to update the VIBSCANNER firmware Switch VIBSCANNER off Connect the battery charger so that the VIBSCANNER is supplied with power during the update Start the VIBSCANNER UpdateTool program The update program is contained in the VIBSCANNER section of the PRÜFTECHNIK C...

Page 69: ...VIBSCANNER 11 2010 69 Appendix ISO 10816 3 ISO 10816 7 ...

Page 70: ...ng frequencies Up to 64kHz depending on measuring range Memory 512 MB intr safe 4 MB Housing ABS strengthened with steel fiber Environmental protection IP 65 Relative humidity 10 90 Temperature range Operation 0 60 C 32 140 F Storage 20 80 C 4 176 F Dimensions HxWxD 250 x 100 x 55 mm 9 8 x 3 9 x 2 2 inch Weight approx 690 g 24 oz Transport case Polypropylene black Dimensions 390 x 340 x 90 mm HxWx...

Page 71: ...410 nF L0 31 mH Temperature sensor circuit in type of protection intr safety E x ib IIC only suitable for the connection to NiCr Ni thermocouple Firmware Measurement functions Velocity displacement acceleration in ma chine specific measurement tasks Shock pulse bearing condition Temperature RPM Process parameters Manual input User defined DC 30V 20 20mA tasks AC 30V 20 20mA Extra low voltage curre...

Page 72: ...witching on the device the red LED flashes quickly Meaning The battery is empty What to do Charge the battery using the charger VIB 5 420 Symptom When switching on the device the backlight of the displays lights up but nothing appears on the display Meaning The firmware is not running properly What to do Reset the device page 75 If this doesn t work update the firmware using the VIB SCANNER update...

Page 73: ...n until the battery is empty again and VIBSCANNER switches off by itself Then repeat the charg ing process If necessary charge the battery separately Symptom Battery level inaccurate appears when switching off or the display of the level of charge is obviously wrong Meaning Charge electronics must be newly programmed What to do see page 11 Symptom VIBSCANNER housing is dirty What to do Clean the V...

Page 74: ...he hard disc may take a few minutes If the format is successful all files on the VIBSCANNER are deleted In order to restore these files use the VIBSCAN NER UpdateTool and download the files by choosing the Filetransfer button in step 4 Make sure that you down load the files from the same firmware version as that already on the VIBSCANNER If the format is not successful return the device for repair...

Page 75: ...the right button function key If this doesn t help clear the current action by pressing the joystick If this doesn t help try to reset the device If the problem persists return the device for repair How to set the device into boot mode Connect the battery charger to the device and to the mains Press all three buttons the left key the right key and the joystick for at least 5 seconds Release the jo...

Page 76: ...belong to the publisher The manual may not be copied reproduced translated or made accessible to a third party in any form neither in its entirety nor as an excerpt No liability may be claimed against the publisher regarding the product described in this manual The publisher assumes no liability for accuracy of the manual contents Furthermore under no circumstances may the publisher be held liable...

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