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PARTS LIST

6-18

Manual 0-5057

PAK 200

6.18 Power Supply Replacement Parts - Right Side

Item # Qty

Description

Ref. Des.

Catalog #

Sensor (Level Switch)

LSW1

9-9354

Motor

9-9381

Pump/Check Valve/Bypass Valve Assembly

9-9380

Bypass Valve (part of assembly)

Pump (part of assembly)

Sensor (Flow Indicator)

9-9359

Illustration is for Reference ONLY

Art # A-08236

Содержание PAK 200

Страница 1: ...460V 208 230 PLASMA CUTTING SYSTEM PAK Operating Manual Rev AB Date October 8 2008 Manual 0 5057 Operating Features 200 ...

Страница 2: ... please take the time to read the entire manual especially the Safety Precautions They will help you to avoid po tential hazards that may exist when working with this product YOU ARE IN GOOD COMPANY The Brand of Choice for Contractors and Fabricators Worldwide Thermal Dynamics is a Global Brand of manual and automation Plasma Cutting Products for Thermadyne Industries Inc We distinguish ourselves ...

Страница 3: ...ght 2008 by Thermadyne Corporation All rights reserved Reproduction of this work in whole or in part without written permission of the publisher is prohibited The publisher does not assume and hereby disclaims any liability to any party for any loss or damage caused by any error or omission in this Manual whether such error results from negligence accident or any other cause Printed in the United ...

Страница 4: ...This page intentionally blank ...

Страница 5: ...t 2 1 2 06 Power Supply Specifications Electrical Requirements 2 2 2 07 Power Supply Dimensions 2 3 2 08 Power Supply Rear Panel Features 2 4 2 09 Gas Requirements 2 5 2 10 Gas Applications 2 5 2 11 PCH M 200 Torch Specifications 2 6 SECTION 3 INSTALLATION 3 1 3 01 Installation Requirements 3 1 3 02 Cables and Leads Identification 3 2 3 03 Cables and Leads Identification 3 3 3 04 Position the Powe...

Страница 6: ...5 Optional Gas Supply Leads 6 5 6 06 Power Supply External Replacement Parts 6 6 6 07 Power Supply Replacement Parts Right Side 6 7 6 08 Power Supply Replacement Parts Right Side 6 8 6 09 Power Supply Replacement Parts Right Side 6 9 6 10 Power Supply Replacement Parts Front Panel 6 10 6 11 Power Supply Replacement Parts Left Side Front Panel 6 11 6 12 Power Supply Replacement Parts Left Side 6 12...

Страница 7: ...PENDIX 3 Command Control PC Board Layout A 3 APPENDIX 4 Command Control PC Board Layout B 4 APPENDIX 5 CNC Control Module Board PCB Connections 5 APPENDIX 6 Arc Starter Gas Control Module Schematic 6 APPENDIX 7 Power Supply Schematic 460V 208 230V 8 APPENDIX 7 Power Supply Schematic 460V 208 230V Cont 10 APPENDIX 8 Power Supply Schematic 400V 12 APPENDIX 8 Power Supply Schematic 400V Cont 14 APPEN...

Страница 8: ...TABLE OF CONTENTS ...

Страница 9: ...Chromium Mercury Arsenic Cobalt Nickel Barium Copper Selenium Beryllium Lead Silver Cadmium Manganese Vanadium Always read the Material Safety Data Sheets MSDS that should be supplied with the material you are using These MSDSs will give you the information regarding the kind and amount of fumes and gases that may be dangerous to your health For information on how to test for fumes and gases in yo...

Страница 10: ...est revisions for more information 1 OSHA SAFETY AND HEALTH STANDARDS 29CFR 1910 obtainable from the Superintendent of Documents U S Government Printing Office Washington D C 20402 2 ANSI Standard Z49 1 SAFETY IN WELDING AND CUTTING obtainable from the American Welding Society 550 N W LeJeune Rd Miami FL 33126 3 NIOSH SAFETY AND HEALTH IN ARC WELDING AND GAS WELDING AND CUTTING obtainable from the...

Страница 11: ...t sur le métal et des différents procédés Vous devez prendre soin lorsque vous coupez ou soudez tout métal pouvant contenir un ou plusieurs des éléments suivants antimoine cadmium mercure argent chrome nickel arsenic cobalt plomb baryum cuivre sélénium béryllium manganèse vanadium Lisez toujours les fiches de données sur la sécurité des matières sigle américain MSDS celles ci devraient être fourni...

Страница 12: ...au contre les étincelles et les rayons de l arc Maintenez votre casque et vos lunettes de protection en bon état Remplacez toute lentille sale ou comportant fissure ou rognure Protégez les autres personnes se trouvant sur la zone de travail contre les rayons de l arc en fournissant des cabines ou des écrans de protection Utilisez la nuance de lentille qui est suggèrée dans le recommenda tion qui s...

Страница 13: ...s de la American Welding Society 550 N W LeJeune Rd Miami FL 33126 8 Norme 51 de l Association Américaine pour la Protection contre les Incendies NFPA LES SYSTEMES À GAZ AVEC ALIMENTATION EN OXYGENE POUR LE SOUDAGE LA COUPE ET LES PROCÉDÉS ASSOCIÉS disponible auprès de la National Fire Protection As sociation Batterymarch Park Quincy MA 02269 9 Norme 70 de la NFPA CODE ELECTRIQUE NATIONAL disponib...

Страница 14: ...er of standards and technical requirements Among them are UL Underwriters Laboratory rating 94VO flammability testing for all printed circuit boards used For environments with increased hazard of electrical shock Power Supplies bearing the mark conform to EN50192 when used in conjunction with hand torches with exposed cutting tips if equipped with properly installed standoff guides Extensive produ...

Страница 15: ...nnection therewith such as the performance or breach thereof or from the manufacture sale delivery resale or use of any goods covered by or furnished by Thermal whether arising out of contract negligence strict tort or under any warranty or otherwise shall not except as expressly provided herein exceed the price of the goods upon which such liability is based THIS WARRANTY BECOMES INVALID IF REPLA...

Страница 16: ...PAK 200 GENERAL INFORMATION 1 8 Manual 0 5057 This Page Intentionally Blank ...

Страница 17: ...uid coolant for the torch and leads 2 03 Gas Control Module Arc Starter This module mounts to the top of the power supply This module enables the operator to select gas set pressures and flows and set cutting current 2 04 Plasma Cutting Torch The torch delivers the controlled current to the work through the main arc causing the metal to be cut 2 05 System Component Layout Primary power Control Cab...

Страница 18: ...wer Factor 0 70 200 ADC Output Cooling Forced Air Class F PAK 200 Power Supply Input Power Input Current Suggested Sizes See Note Voltage Freq 3 Ph 3 Ph Fuse Amps Wire AWG Volts Hz kVA Amps 3 Ph 3 Ph 208 60 47 130 160 22 230 60 49 125 150 22 400 50 54 77 100 41 400 CE 50 54 77 100 41 460 60 59 75 90 41 Line Voltages with Suggested Circuit Protection and Wire Sizes Based on National Electric Code a...

Страница 19: ...Manual 0 5057 2 3 SPECIFICATIONS PAK 200 Art A 04822 33 inch 840 mm 27 inch 680 mm 37 75 inch 960 mm 41 25 inch 1050 mm 27 5 inch 700 mm 48 75 inch 1238 mm 397 lb 180 kg 2 07 Power Supply Dimensions ...

Страница 20: ...Connections Input Power Terminals Pilot Pos Terminal Circuit Breaker Panel Terminal Cover AC Power Lamp Ground Terminals Gas Control Connector RETURN SUPPLY Art A 08378 Torch Control Connection Arc Starter Connector Work Cable Terminal Torch Neg Terminal Torch Leads Port Gas Entry Ports Gas Control Connector Arc Starter Connector Leads Bracket ...

Страница 21: ...r Clean Dry Free of Oil see Note 1 90 psi 6 2 bar 621 kPa 450 scfh 212 1 min H35 Argon Hydrogen H35 35 Hydrogen 65 Argon 99 995 Purity gas recommended 90 psi 6 2 bar 827 kPa 100 scfh 47 1 min H2 O Water See Note 2 50 psi 3 5 bar 10 gph 38 lph Note 1 The air source must be adequately filtered to remove all oil or grease Oil or grease contamination from compressed or bottled air can cause fires in c...

Страница 22: ...gths Available as custom or 17 4 in 4 3 in 109 2mm 2 5 in 1 5 in 38 1mm 1 9 in 48 3mm 3 5 in 14 3 in 13 3 in 3 3 in 1 5 in 1 4 in 1 5 in 1 4 in 13 5 in A 02683 337mm 342 9mm 38 1mm 363 2mm 35 6mm 83 8mm 38 1mm 88 9mm 35 6mm 44 2mm 86 4mm 68 5mm 70 90 180 3 4 in Gas Lead Assemblies Length Feet Meters 25 7 6 50 15 2 ...

Страница 23: ...rts are in place If coolant return flow to the power supply is absent or insufficient the power supply will not provide power to the torch Coolant leakage from the torch also indicates that torch parts are absent or installed improperly E Type Cooling Combination of gas stream through torch and liquid cooling Electrode Shield Cup Tip Gas Distributor Torch Head Water Tube Extension Gouging Only A 0...

Страница 24: ...SPECIFICATIONS 2 8 Manual 0 5057 PAK 200 This page is blank intentionally ...

Страница 25: ... Thermal Dynamics recommends the use of its coolants 7 3580 and 7 3581 for low temperatures SECTION 3 INSTALLATION 3 01 Installation Requirements Electric Supply The electrical supply network the gas and water supply system must meet local safety standards This conformity shall be checked by qualified personnel PAK 200 Power Supply Input Power Input Current Suggested Sizes See Note Voltage Freq 3 ...

Страница 26: ...ary power Control Cable Ground Cable Work Art A 08376_AB Torch Work Cable PAK 200 Power Supply Arc Starter Gas Control Module GCM 200 Pilot Return Negative Coolant Supply Coolant Return Control Cable Torch Lead Set Coolant Supply w Negative Coolant Return Pilot Return Plasma Gas Shield Gas Control Cable Maximum Length 100 30 5 m Primary Ground ...

Страница 27: ... AWG A Green Red 8 AWG Cable 1 AWG Cable B C D E F K Work Cable 37 14 Coolant Leads Power Supply to Arc Starter Pilot Return Power Supply to Arc Starter Negative Lead Power Supply to Arc Starter Control Cable Power Supply to Arc Starter Ground Cable O Control Cable Power Supply to Gas Control Module Green Red 4 1 3 m 1 AWG ...

Страница 28: ...l four lifting eyes when using lifting straps to lift the power supply Use a forklift crane or hoist to lift the unit off the shipping pallet as shown Keep the power supply steady and vertical Do not lift it any further than necessary to clear the shipping pallet Art A 04824 Set the power supply on a solid level surface The installer may fasten the power supply to the floor or a supporting fixture...

Страница 29: ...mary Power Connections The primary power cable must be supplied by the end user and connected to the power supply Refer to local and national electrical codes for suggested cable and fuse sizes Connections Cover Removed Connection Panel Art A 04827 ...

Страница 30: ...el Remove the power supply left side panel and locate the voltage configuration board The input voltage configuration is shown at the top of the board 2 If necessary disconnect the jumper from the top right corner of the board remove the board and re install withthe correct input voltage shown at the top of the board Reconnect the jumper to the top right corner of theboard Art A 04856_AB 1 Unplug ...

Страница 31: ... ground wire to the ground terminal block CAUTION The clear connections cover must remain in place 4 If required pass a system ground cable F1 through the last opening in the connections cover su port panel next to the input power cable Connect the cable to the ground terminal block on the power supply rear panel Refer to the Ground Connections Section for full details and procedures on proper sys...

Страница 32: ...stration Connect the lead as shown Tighten securely Do not overtighten WARNING Ensure that lead attachment hardware is properly sized Excess length may cause damage if hardware contacts other parts of the system The clear connections cover must remain in place PILOT WORK TORCH Input power cable Ground Terminal Block Connections Cover Support Panel Art A 08501 Connections Cover Connection Panel Lea...

Страница 33: ...ual 0 5057 3 9 INSTALLATION PAK 200 3 07 Connect Gas Supply Lines 1 Connect the gas supply lines to the appropriate input ports as shown RETURN SUPPLY RETURN SUPPLY Art A 08463 Plasma Gas In Shield Gas In ...

Страница 34: ...INSTALLATION 3 10 Manual 0 5057 PAK 200 3 08 Connect Torch Control Cable 1 Connect the Torch Control cable to the power supply receptacle marked J15 RETURN SUPPLY RETURN SUPPLY Art A 08492 To Torch ...

Страница 35: ...setting SW 1 3 Pilot Delay 2 ON 3 OFF 4 OFF 0 1 Seconds SW 1 4 Pilot Delay 2 OFF 3 ON 4 OFF 0 2 Seconds 2 ON 3 ON 4 OFF 0 4 Seconds 2 OFF 3 OFF 4 ON 0 8 Seconds 2 ON 3 OFF 4 ON 1 0 Seconds 2 OFF 3 ON 4 ON 1 5 Seconds 2 ON 3 ON 4 ON 2 0 Seconds SW 4 Postflow Time 1 OFF 2 OFF 10 Seconds Factory default setting 1 ON 2 OFF 20 Seconds 1 OFF 2 ON 5 Seconds 1 ON 2 ON 0 Seconds SW 5 1 Tip Saver SW5 1 not ...

Страница 36: ...120VAC 1A Factory default setting or DC Volts 16 18vdc up to 100 ma SW 11 Analog Current Control B from Gas Control Factory default setting or A from CNC Position A requires that SW 8 2 be ON SW 12 1 2 3 4 Divided Arc signal All OFF 50 1 Factory default setting 1 ON 16 6 1 2 ON 30 1 3 ON 40 1 4 Not used SW13 1 1 OFF SW13 2 1 ON Art A 08502 Only 1 on at a time SW11 SW13 SW6 SW12 No external connect...

Страница 37: ...dule Ensure that the leads outer jacket slides into the port CAUTION Use protective gloves when handling the leads Do not kink or bend the leads 3 Connect the leads to the module in the sequence shown Coolant leads and connectors are color tagged red for coolant return green for coolant supply Shield gas and plasma gas connections are left and right hand threaded and will not interchange Torch Lea...

Страница 38: ... 14 Manual 0 5057 PAK 200 4 Re install the module top cover Art A 08383 Coolant Supply Connection Tagged Green Coolant Return Connection Tagged Red Art A 04832 Plasma Gas Connection Shield Gas Connection Torch Leads ...

Страница 39: ...ouging Shield Cup Gouging Only Catalog No 32 1527 Short Shield Cup Standoff Cutting Only Catalog No 32 1325 Cutting Tip Air N2 AR H2 0 063 Orifice 120 amps Catalog No 32 1322 Gouging Tip Air N2 Ar H2 0 110 Orifice Catalog No 32 1512 Gouging Tip Air N2 Ar H2 0 156 Orifice Catalog No 32 1514 Gouging Electrode N2 Ar H2 Catalog No 32 1505 Gouging Electrode Air N2 Catalog No 32 1504 Crown Shield Cup St...

Страница 40: ... Tip Flats Gas Distributor Notch Used with 5 8 15 9 mm Tip This Side Towards Torch A 01639 Electrode Shield Cup Tip Gas Distributor Torch Head Water Tube Extension Gouging Only A 02188 Multi Purpose Wrench 4 Using the multi purpose wrench electrode area remove the electrode 5 Remove gouging water extension tube if used 6 Install the desired electrode for the operation into the torch head The circu...

Страница 41: ...red varies with torch leads length 2 Replace the cap on the tank Coolant Capabiities Cat Number and Mixture Mixture Protects To 7 3580 Extra CoolTM 25 75 10 F 12 C 7 3581 Ultra CoolTM 50 50 27 F 33 C 7 3582 Extreme CoolTM Concentrat 65 F 51 C RETURN SUPPLY RETURN SUPPLY Art A 04803 COOLANT Fill Range Coolant Tank 3 After the complete system has been installed check that the coolant has been pumped...

Страница 42: ...gain e Repeat steps b through d until the system no longer shuts down Depending on the length of the torch leads this sequence may need to be done three to five times f After the system stays operational allow the pump to operate for ten minutes to properly purge any air from the coolant lines before using the system 4 Re fill the reservoir and re install the filler cap 5 Purge coolant from the to...

Страница 43: ...detect tempera tures above normal limits Let the unit cool before continuing operation GAS Indicator The indicator blinks when the gas control is not ready Causes for not being ready are when purging Run Set switch is not set to Run gas pressure is not correct When gas flow is called for preflow cutting postflow the indicator is on steady It is off at all other times DC Indicator Indicates the pow...

Страница 44: ...ob Shield Gas Pressure Control Knob GCM 200 A CUT OUT Run Set Selector Use SET position to adjust plasma and shield pressures and flows Once these are set switch to RUN position for operation Plasma and Shield Gas Pressure Control Knobs Adjust plasma and shield gas pressures Turn knobs to set desired levels Plasma and Shield Gas Pressure Gauges Display plasma and shield gas pressures Amperage Sele...

Страница 45: ...gases will flow H Amperage Selection Select the desired output amperage I Pressure and Flow Settings 1 Default Settings Pre Flow When the cut demand is activated either via the hand torch or remote pendant the plasma and shield gasses will flow from the torch before the pilot arc is generated The default pre flow time for the PAK 200 is 2 seconds Post Flow After the plasma arc has terminated a pos...

Страница 46: ...0 bevel angle Top Edge Rounding Rounding on the top edge of a cut due to wearing from the initial contact of the plasma arc on the workpiece Dross Build up and Top Spatter Dross is molten material which is not blown out of the cut area and re solidifies on the plate Top spatter is dross which accumulates on the top surface of the workpiece Excessive dross may require secondary cleanup opera tions ...

Страница 47: ...en completed Always open the power supply disconnect switch five minutes after the last cut is made 1 Connect system to primary input power 2 Turn ON OFF switch to ON up position AC Lamp turns ON Fan and coolant pump turn on There is a start up purge of gas through the system POWER ON OFF O I OFF O Art A 04842 Right Side Cut Angle Left Side Cut Angle A 00512 Scrap Clockwise Counter Clockwise Art A...

Страница 48: ...ter a 4 second delay the lamp repeats the sequence until the condition is corrected Some conditions can be active indefinitely while others are momentary The power supply latches momentary conditions some momentary errors can shut down the system The lamp may show multiple conditions in sequence it is important to recognize all possible conditions that may be displayed The Error Code section provi...

Страница 49: ...h shorted torch body consumable parts worn out 2 1 Missing Phase Blown fuse Broken or loose connection on power cable 2 2 Wrong input voltage Inverter s not configured correctly for input voltage Poor power quality brownouts dropouts Input power capacity wiring too small causing voltage drop broken or loose power cable connections 2 3 Inverter or Pilot Regulator Over Temperature Failed fan Ambient...

Страница 50: ...efective 3 8 CCM and Gas Control type Au tocut Ultracut mismatch CCM not PAK200 SW13 1 should be off or CCM defective 3 9 Gas Control Communication reply fault Does not apply to PAK200 if displayed CCM defective 3 10 Warning Gas Control firm ware needs update Does not apply to PAK200 if displayed CCM defective 4 1 Coolant Level low fault Check coolant level add as needed 4 2 Low coolant flow after...

Страница 51: ...tive 5 2 CANBUS Off due to excessive data errors Does not apply to PAK200 if displayed CCM defective 5 3 CANBUS data error warning Errors increasing will soon fault Does not apply to PAK200 if displayed CCM defective 5 4 CCM Message not sent Does not apply to PAK200 if displayed CCM defective 6 1 CCM Analog Voltage Error Replace CCM 6 2 CCM ADC or DAC error Replace CCM ...

Страница 52: ...2 1323 170 200 55 1 4 0 18 4 6 70 4 8 60 4 1 83 340 0 45 11 4 Type Torch PCH 200 Type Material Stainless Steel Type Plasma Gas Air Type Secondary Gas Air Thickness Tip Output Volts Amper age Speed Per Minute Standoff Plasma Gas Press Sec Gas Press Total Flow SCFH Pierce Height Inches mm Cat No VDC Amps Inches Meters Inches mm psi bar psi bar Plasma Secondary Inches mm 20 ga 0 9 32 1320 110 35 100 ...

Страница 53: ... 65 4 5 60 4 1 78 340 0 38 9 7 0 625 15 9 32 1322 140 120 40 1 0 25 6 4 65 4 5 60 4 1 78 340 0 38 9 7 0 750 19 1 32 1322 145 120 30 0 8 0 25 6 4 65 4 5 60 4 1 78 340 0 38 9 7 1 000 25 4 32 1322 160 120 15 0 4 0 25 6 4 65 4 5 60 4 1 78 340 N R N R 1 250 31 8 32 1322 165 120 12 0 3 0 25 6 4 65 4 5 60 4 1 78 340 N R N R 1 500 38 1 32 1322 180 120 5 0 1 0 25 6 4 62 4 3 60 4 1 78 340 N R N R 0 50 12 7 ...

Страница 54: ...nches mm psi bar psi bar Plasma Secondary Inches mm 0 250 6 4 32 1322 130 120 100 2 5 0 25 6 4 65 4 5 60 4 1 75 340 0 25 6 4 0 500 12 7 32 1322 135 120 60 1 5 0 25 6 4 65 4 5 60 4 1 75 340 0 38 9 7 0 750 19 1 32 1322 135 120 30 0 8 0 25 6 4 65 4 5 60 4 1 75 340 0 38 9 7 1 000 25 4 32 1322 140 120 20 0 5 0 25 6 4 65 4 5 60 4 1 75 340 N R N R 0 500 12 7 32 1323 145 200 110 2 8 0 3 7 6 70 4 8 60 4 1 ...

Страница 55: ...PAK 200 Manual 0 5057 4 13 OP This Page Intentionally Blank ...

Страница 56: ...PAK 200 OPERATION 4 14 Manual This Page Intentionally Blank ...

Страница 57: ...racks or abrasion Replace as needed Six Months Replace coolant filter Clean coolant tank Vacuum out any dust buildup inside power supply 5 01 Coolant Filter Cleaning Procedure Periodic cleaning of the coolant filter ensures maximum coolant flow efficiency Poor coolant flow causes inef ficient torch parts cooling with consequent faster consumable wear Clean the coolant filter as follows 1 Disconnec...

Страница 58: ...ANCE input power and turn it on to allow the pump to empty the tank The pump will run approximately for 20 seconds before the flow switch causes an interlock This procedure may be repeated a few times until the tank is completely empty 3 Connect the coolant line fitting and fill the tank with fresh coolant until the right level is reached RETURN SUPPLY RETURN SUPPLY Art A 04803 COOLANT Fill Range ...

Страница 59: ... Visual inspection Reconnect No Pilot Ignition No Spark in Arc Starter Spark gap set too large Check with feler gauge Set to 0 063 0 002 Faulty transformer Resistance measurement Replace No 120V supply Check input voltage at EMI filter Make connections replace harness No loose connection to spark gap Visual inspection Reconnect Faulty EMI filter Voltage Resistor mea surement Replace No cooling or ...

Страница 60: ...CE 5 4 Manual 0 5057 PAK 200 5 04 Arc Starter Spark Gap Adjustment 1 Shut off input power Remove the top console cover 2 Adjust the spark gap as shown Re install the top cover 0 063 0 002 1 6 0 05 mm Art A 04835 ...

Страница 61: ...ION 6 REPLACEMENT ASSEMBLIES PARTS 6 01 Replacement Power Supply Complete Unit Component Catalog Pak 200 Power Supply 208 230 460V 3 0003 Pak 200 Power Supply 400V 3 0004 Pak 200 Power Supply 400V CE 3 0005 OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT Wheel Kit 9 9379 ...

Страница 62: ...No 2 3 9 7030 9 1 Two Stage Air Line Filter Assembly 7 3139 10 1 First Stage Filter Element Replacement 9 1021 11 1 Second Stage Filter Element Replacement 9 1022 1 Nitrogen Regulator 9 2722 1 CO2 Regulator 9 2759 1 Argon Hydrogen Regulator 9 3053 16 1 Remote Pendant Control Assembly 7 3460 1 High Pressure Air Regulator 9 3022 9 10 11 16 Art A 08471_AB ...

Страница 63: ...er 4 ft 1 2 m 9 4941 F Ground Wire only Power Supply to Gas Control Module 4 ft 1 2 m 9 4923 G Torch Lead Assembly 4 0014 4 0015 4 0016 K Control Cable Power Supply to Gas Control Module 9 9331 O Work Cable w Clamp 9 0020 NOTE Supply lead set includes Pilot Return Cable Negative Cable Coolant Supply Return Hoses and Control Cable Primary power Control Cable Ground Cable Work Art A 08376_AB Torch W...

Страница 64: ...een Red 8 AWG Cable 1 AWG Cable B C D E F K Work Cable 37 14 Coolant Leads Power Supply to Arc Starter Pilot Return Power Supply to Arc Starter Negative Lead Power Supply to Arc Starter Control Cable Power Supply to Arc Starter Ground Cable O Control Cable Power Supply to Gas Control Module Green Red 4 1 3 m 1 AWG ...

Страница 65: ...08 9 9009 9 9010 9 9011 3 8 Inert B RH Inert B LH 9 9012 9 9013 9 9014 9 9015 SYNFLEX HOSE FITTINGS ID CATALOG per foot NUT Inert B LH NUT Inert B RH NIPPLE Inert NUT FUEL B LH NUT 02 B RH NIPPLE CLAMP 1 4 9 3743 9 3556 9 2776 9 2775 8 5518 8 5015 8 0327 8 0384 3 8 9 3616 8 6473 N A N A N A 8 6617 N A 8 0384 1 2 9 2551 8 6470 N A N A 9 3831 ADAPTER FITTINGS Catalog 1 4 NPT Inert B RH 8 0330 Inert ...

Страница 66: ...ription Catalog 1 Power Supply Front Panel 9 9380 1 Power Supply Rear Panel 9 9381 1 Power Supply Top Panel 9 9382 1 Power Supply Right Side 9 9383 1 Power Supply Left Side 9 9384 1 Louver Panel 9 9385 1 Power Supply Connections Cover 9 9386 1 Lifting Eye 9 9373 1 Touch Up Paint Not Shown 9 9388 ...

Страница 67: ...Manual 0 5057 6 7 PARTS LIST PAK 200 6 07 Power Supply Replacement Parts Right Side Item Qty Description Ref Des Catalog 1 1 Heat Exchange Fan FAN 1 9 9338 2 1 Radiator 9 9339 1 2 Art A 04790 ...

Страница 68: ...er Supply Replacement Parts Right Side Item Qty Description Ref Des Catalog 1 1 Output Filter PC PCB8 9 9341 2 1 Sensor HCT2 9 9368 3 1 Magnetic Contactor pilot MC2 9 9343 4 1 Resisto R6 9 9340 5 1 Resisto R9 6 1 Capacit C2 1 2 Art A 08309 4 5 6 3 ...

Страница 69: ...Manual 0 5057 6 9 PARTS LIST PAK 200 6 09 Power Supply Replacement Parts Right Side Item Qty Description Ref Des Catalog 1 Chopper Module 9 9389 1 Sensor HCT1 9 9342 Chopper Module Art A 08311 HCT1 ...

Страница 70: ...LIST 6 10 Manual 0 5057 PAK 200 6 10 Power Supply Replacement Parts Front Panel Item Qty Description Ref Des Catalog 7 1 Main Power Switch Circuit Protector CP1 9 9344 for 230 400 460 VAC units 7 Art A 08312 ...

Страница 71: ...S LIST PAK 200 6 11 Power Supply Replacement Parts Left Side Front Panel Item Qty Description Ref Des Catalog 1 PC Board PCB3 9 9365 1 PC Board 230 460VAC PCB4 9 9370 1 Display PC Board PCB6 9 9347 PCB3 PCB4 PCB6 Art A 08313 ...

Страница 72: ...IST 6 12 Manual 0 5057 PAK 200 6 12 Power Supply Replacement Parts Left Side Item Qty Description Ref Des Catalog 1 1 PCBoard 230 400 460VAC PCB1 9 9362 2 1 Magnetic Contactor MC1 MC3 9 9364 Art A 08314 1 2 2 ...

Страница 73: ... AGC 125V 2 5A 120VAC 1A CP5 9 9348 16 1 Circuit Breaker AGC 125V 2 5A 15VDC 1A CP6 9 9348 17 1 Circuit Breaker Pump 250V 10A 200VAC 3A CP7 9 9351 18 1 Circuit Breaker Fan 125V 3 15A 24VDC 1A CP8 9 9349 1 Coolant Tank 9 5948 1 Tank Cap 8 5142 1 Filter Coolant 8 4276 RAS 125V 2 5A CCM 125V3 15A GCM 125V 10A GCM 125V2 5A GCM 125V2 5A PUMP 250V 10A FAN 125V 3 15A CIRCUIT BREAKERS J55 J59 J15 G C M C ...

Страница 74: ...wer Supply Replacement Parts Right Side Item Qty Description Ref Des Catalog 1 1 Resistor R7 9 9363 2 1 Rectifier Diode D1 9 9345 3 1 Transformer T1 9 9355 for 230 460 VAC units 4 1 Diode D2 9 9486 5 1 Terminal Strip TB3 N A Art A 08310 1 2 3 4 5 ...

Страница 75: ...Manual 0 5057 6 15 PARTS LIST PAK 200 6 15 Power Supply Replacement Parts Item Qty Description Catalog 29 2 Inverter Module 460 and 208 230V 9 9360D 2 Inverter Module 400 9 9482D Art A 04786_AB ...

Страница 76: ...PARTS LIST 6 16 Manual 0 5057 PAK 200 6 16Power Supply Replacement Parts Right Side Item Qty Description Ref Des Catalog 30 1 Sensor Thermistor TH1 9 9361 30 Art A 04787 ...

Страница 77: ...Manual 0 5057 6 17 PARTS LIST PAK 200 6 17 Power Supply Replacement Parts Item Qty Description Ref Des Catalog 1 1 Relay PC Board PCB7 9 9366 3 1 Internal Control PC Board PCB5 9 9346 Art A 08315 1 2 3 ...

Страница 78: ...scription Ref Des Catalog 22 1 Sensor Level Switch LSW1 9 9354 24 1 Motor M 9 9381 25 1 Pump Check Valve Bypass Valve Assembly 9 9380 26 1 Bypass Valve part of assembly 27 1 Pump part of assembly 28 1 Sensor Flow Indicator F1 9 9359 Illustration is for Reference ONLY 27 22 25 24 26 28 Art A 08236 ...

Страница 79: ...Manual 0 5057 6 19 PARTS LIST PAK 200 6 19 Power Supply Replacement Parts Right Side Item Qty Description Catalog 1 1 Pilot Resistor Mounting Bracket 9 0032 2 6 Pilot Resistor 3 6 ohms 300W 9 0039 1 2 ...

Страница 80: ...as Bulkhead 9 4982 6 1 Bulkhead 9 4983 7 1 Solenoid Mount 9 4984 8 1 Lid Bracket 9 4985 9 Not Included 10 1 Bulkhead 9 4988 11 1 Bulkhead Gas Box Arc Starter 9 4989 12 1 Mount Neg Lead Attach 9 4990 13 1 Bracket Gas Box Arc Starter 9 4991 14 1 Hose Package 9 4993 15 1 Harness Gas Controls 9 4994 16 1 Harness Arc Starter 9 4995 17 1 Wire List Arc Starter Not shown 9 4996 Art A 08386 Right Side Left...

Страница 81: ...ST PAK 200 6 21 Command Control Module Replacement Parts Item Qty Description Catalog 1 1 Assembly CCM PAK200 9 9418 2 1 Plate CCM Face 9 9419 3 1 Panel CCM Mount Not Available 4 1 Harness CCM I O Board 9 9421 3 4 2 1 Art A 06798 ...

Страница 82: ...PARTS LIST 6 22 Manual 0 5057 PAK 200 This Page Intentionally Blank ...

Страница 83: ...anel of the power supply is ON The inside of the torch should be cleaned with electrical contact cleaner using a cotton swab or soft wet rag In severe cases the torch can be removed from the leads refer to Section 5 07 Servicing Machine Torch Components or Section 5 06 Servicing Hand Torch Components and cleaned more thoroughly by pouring electrical contact cleaner into the torch and blowing it th...

Страница 84: ...e atmosphere This reaction can leave contaminants inside the torch Either of these conditions can lead to inconsistent performance or poor parts life 7 03 Common Operating Faults The following lists the more common cutting faults and what is the possible cause 1 Insufficient Penetration a Cutting speed too fast b Torch tilted too much c Metal too thick d Worn torch parts e Cutting current too low ...

Страница 85: ... Unscrew and remove the shield cup from the torch NOTE Slag built up on the shield cup that cannot be removed may effect the performance of the system Electrode Shield Cup Tip Gas Distributor Torch Head Water Tube Extension Gouging Only A 02188 Torch Consumable Parts 2 Inspect the cup for damage Wipe it clean or replace if damaged 3 Using the multipurpose wrench 5 8 inch slot re move the tip Check...

Страница 86: ... check the causes easiest listed first then remedies Repair as needed being sure to verify that unit is fully operational after any repairs A Torch will not pilot when torch switch is activated 1 Power Supply RUN SET switch in SET position a Place RUN SET switch to RUN position 2 Torch switch activated during 20 second pre flow a Release torch switch and wait at least 20 sec onds before activating...

Страница 87: ...l or moisture buildup do not activate torch 4 Poor input or output connections to power supply a Check all input and output connections F No gas flow 1 Gas not connected or pressure too low a Check source for at least 100 125 psi 6 9 8 6 bar maximum pressure 2 Faulty components in torch and leads assembly a Inspect torch assemblies and replace if neces sary Refer to Section 5 09 Torch and Leads Tr...

Страница 88: ...wing procedure 1 Slide the torch handle with torch switch and sheath ing over the torch leads 2 Connect all four leads to connect to the replacement torch head assembly 3 Remove the rigid insulator from the old Torch Head Assembly from between the layers of Estermat paper and install replacement insulator Refer to illustration pg 7 7 for location and orientation of rigid insulator NOTE Over a peri...

Страница 89: ...h lead sleeving 4 Unscrew the positioning tube from the torch adaptor on the torch head assembly and slide the positioning tube back over the leads 5 Unscrew the torch adaptor from the torch head assembly Slide the torch adaptor back over the leads to expose the plasma secondary coolant supply and coolant return connectors Positioning Tube Torch Adaptor Lead Connections A 00663 Bushing Pinion Asse...

Страница 90: ...Leads can be isolated to the Torch Head or Torch Lead components To properly isolate the failed part requires the use of an ohmmeter and a Hi Pot Tester WARNING The use of a Hi Pot Tester should be performed only by a qualified electronic technician In the Torch Head the center insulator separates the nega tive and positive charged sections of the torch If the center insulator does not provide ade...

Страница 91: ...or insulation breakdown if no other fault has been found This procedure requires the use of a Hi Pot Tester WARNING This procedure should be performed only by a qualified electronic technician 1 To test the Torch Head center insulator for insula tion breakdown use the following procedure a Remove the Torch Head Assembly from the Torch Leads if not already done b Remove the consumables from the Tor...

Страница 92: ...This Page Intentionally Blank ...

Страница 93: ...umper to 15 28 22 26 24 Sol 1 29 27 30 31 32 36 37 POWER SUPPLY J55 Art A 04848 ARC STARTER GAS CONTROL MODULE J56 1 Jumper to 2 2 Jumper to 1 15 Jumper to 23 14 Run Set Sw 16 17 33 Ground 34 35 4 Gas Pr Sw SW1 9 Jumper to 8 3 9 5 10 vdc 1 6 Pot Wiper 10 Gas On 13 19 15 E Stop 14 E Stop 11 Gas On 12 16 24VAC 17 24 VAC Ret 18 20 25 23 28 26 24 24 VAC Ret 29 27 30 31 34 120VAC 35 120VAC Ret 32 36 37...

Страница 94: ...upply J59 to Arc Starter Gas Control Console J58 3 9 120 VAC RET 5 1 Jumpered to 4 6 7 120 VAC 8 10 13 14 11 12 Art A 04849 2 Ground POWER SUPPLY J59 ARC STARTER GAS CONTROL MODULE J58 3 5 4 1 6 8 10 16 15 11 12 14 13 4 Jumpered to 1 2 Ground 9 120 VAC RET 7 120 VAC ...

Страница 95: ...R2 U27 R79 C2 U5 R91 D11 R51 C25 R89 R18 R8 C51 D3 D13 U28 1 C8 R31 R40 C34 R85 R38 C48 D7 R92 R57 R7 R4 C1 R36 1 2 1 SW4 C9 R3 R62 R63 U17 R13 160 U14 1 40 120 80 R27 C31 R59 R55 R32 U13 1 C45 C39 L1 R44 R84 R61 R20 R58 R78 U29 C14 D2 R33 C7 U22 C52 R76 C46 R21 U11 1 R37 R16 C10 R41 D4 R83 R49 U15 R93 R39 C53 C59 C47 U23 1 U19 1 C24 C29 R94 D5 R48 R60 D14 C28 R75 R12 C11 U10 C44 R53 C23 L6 1 U21 ...

Страница 96: ...V 15V 15V 15V R87 18V GND ISOLATED PILOT R56 DEMAND CUT DEMAND ARC V R114 PILOT V CC POT D3 TP8 R26 K7 GAS ON C34 U19 L2 C27 R29 C83 R90 C69 C52 U2 1 C48 U9 1 R129 R50 C15 TB1 R59 C20 R83 C82 D9 C4 C23 C55 R147 C88 C95 K2 START C46 R61 R109 D4 D32 J9 Q1 R143 C71 C49 R91 R24 R60 J6 R22 R142 R21 R7 R108 R63 R40 R101 R37 C5 C64 C92 T1 R30 J8 R134 R119 R116 R89 R48 K3 E STOP CNC R78 D36 D31 R140 R107 ...

Страница 97: ...ote Analog Current Control 0 10V TB1 11 TB1 12 TB2 1 Hold Start TB2 2 Hold Start TB2 3 Preflow On TB2 4 Preflow On TB2 5 TB2 6 Pilot On Relay Contacts NO TB2 7 TB2 8 Pilot On Relay Contacts NO TB2 9 TB2 10 OK to Move Contacts or DC Volts TB2 11 TB2 12 OK to Move Contacts or DC Volts TB2 TB1 Sustained Start Stop TB1 5 TB1 6 Momentary Start Stop TB1 4 TB1 5 TB1 6 Stop Start Start Stop Circuit Config...

Страница 98: ...3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 T1 11X16 T1 11X16 1 2 3 4 SW1 GAS PRESSURE SW1 GAS PRESSURE 1 2 C1 1900 pf C1 1900 pf SW3 RUN SET SW3 RUN SET 2 1 3 5 4 6 SOL2 SOL2 C3 1900 pf C3 1900 pf WORK WORK GAP1 SPARK GAP 0 062 GAP1 SPARK GAP 0 062 R1 6 8K 1W R1 6 8K 1W Line Filter 1ph Line Filter 1ph Line1 Line2 Load1 Load2 GND J58 16 PIN J58 16 PIN 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ...

Страница 99: ...ES ARE EXPRESSED IN MICROFARADS uF Chk App TITLE Last Modified SCHEMATIC NONE 42X1309 Thursday April 17 2008 1 1 82 BENNING STREET W LEBANON NH 03781 603 298 5711 GCM 200 GAS CONTROL ARC STARTER 14 51 05 THERMADYNE INTRO ECO B731 GAC 04 17 08 GAC AA DWG No Sheet of Supersedes Scale Create Date Drawn Reference Date By Change Description Rev Information Proprietary to THERMADYNE INDUSTRIES Not For R...

Страница 100: ...NG PHASE pulses PCB 5 WK 5602 partial LED1 DIM LOW BRIGHT OK LED2 DIM OK BRIGHT FAULT LED3 DIM OK BRIGHT FAULT LED4 OFF OK ON FAULT LED5 OFF OK ON FAULT CN6 16 CKT CN6 VAC_IN P_GND PCB4 WK 5604 PCB3 WK 5694 BIAS SUPPLY FOR PCB5 F2 Sht2 100A INVERTER MODULE 2 bottom same as 1 460 DC FAN POWER A2 Sht 2 A2 Sht 2 AC AC AC D1 AC AC AC D1 CN32 CN32 1 2 3 4 C P1 C P1 P P CN7 CN7 1 2 3 4 5 P1 P1 CN3 CN3 1...

Страница 101: ...LL SENSOR C1 Capacitor 0 1 uf 1250 VDC D2 Sht 2 C2 Capacitor 2 uf 430VAC A9 Sht 1 C P1 Circuit protector ON OFF SW B2 Sht 1 15A 460V 3P C P2 Circuit protector 2 5A 125V D2 Sht 1 C P3 Circuit protector 3 15A 125V D2 Sht 1 C P4 Circuit protector 10A 125V E2 Sht 1 C P5 Circuit protector 2 5A 125V E2 Sht 1 C P6 Circuit protector 2 5A 125V F2 Sht 1 C P7 Circuit protector 5A 125V E2 Sht 1 C P8 Circuit p...

Страница 102: ...N LED1 LEVEL LED1 LEVEL CN2 CN2 1 2 TP4 TP4 TB2 TB2 TB4 TB4 1 2 C P7 C P7 RY4 RY4 CN10 CN10 1 2 3 4 5 6 CN3 CN3 1 2 3 CN20 CN20 1 2 3 RY2 RELCOL_0 RY2 RELCOL_0 V GND SIG FL1 FLOW_TURBINE_PULSE V GND SIG FL1 FLOW_TURBINE_PULSE R B G CN7 CN7 1 2 3 4 MC3 AUX MC3 AUX C P3 C P3 D23 CNC_START D23 CNC_START MC3 MC3 1 2 3 PUMP MOT1 PUMP MOT1 MC1 AUX MC1 AUX TP8 TP8 C P6 C P6 1 2 3 TP11 TP11 CN10 CN10 1 2 ...

Страница 103: ...AA 42X1311 Friday January 18 2008 2 2 INDUSTRIAL PARK 2 WEST LEBANON NH 03784 603 298 5711 PAK 200 Power Supply 208 230 460V Thursday January 10 2008 12 19 03 THERMAL DYNAMICS D MOMENTARY START STOP START STOP STOP START KEY PLUG TB1 TB2 RIBBON CABLE TEST SOCKET E2 E2 JUMPER IN REMOTE HMI DAT Signal Basic ID Used to identify GCM 1000 present E4 RIBBON CABLE SIGNALS active low digital signal CN10 J...

Страница 104: ...al MISSING PHASE pulses LED1 DIM LOW BRIGHT OK LED2 DIM OK BRIGHT FAULT LED3 DIM OK BRIGHT FAULT LED4 OFF OK ON FAULT LED5 OFF OK ON FAULT CN6 16 CKT CN6 P_GND VAC_IN PCB3 WK 5694 PCB4 WK 5604 BIAS SUPPLY FOR PCB5 F2 Sht2 100A INVERTER MODULE 2 bottom same as 1 400 DC FAN POWER A2 Sht 2 A2 Sht 2 3 1 2 4 MC3 B MC3 B TB2 TB2 CN7 CN7 1 2 3 4 5 CN10 CN10 1 2 CN32 CN32 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 CN4 CN4 1 4 LED2 ...

Страница 105: ... BIAS POWER C1 Capacitor 0 1 uf 1250 VDC D2 Sht 2 C2 Capacitor 2 uf 430VAC A9 Sht 1 C P1 Circuit protector ON OFF SW B2 Sht 1 15A 460V 3P C P2 Circuit protector 2 5A 125V D2 Sht 1 C P3 Circuit protector 3 15A 125V D2 Sht 1 C P4 Circuit protector 10A 125V E2 Sht 1 C P5 Circuit protector 2 5A 125V E2 Sht 1 C P6 Circuit protector 2 5A 125V F2 Sht 1 C P7 Circuit protector 5A 125V E2 Sht 1 C P8 Circuit...

Страница 106: ... TB5 TB5 D11 INITIALIZING PROGRAMMING D11 INITIALIZING PROGRAMMING CN1 CN1 1 2 3 1 2 3 C P4 C P4 TP8 TP8 C P2 C P2 RY4 RY4 D28 CNC_PREFLOW D28 CNC_PREFLOW C P7 C P7 TB3 TB3 CN1 CN1 1 2 1 2 CN2 CN2 1 2 3 4 5 D1 GAS_ON D1 GAS_ON CN14 CN14 1 2 RY3 RY3 C P8 C P8 C P6 C P6 D12 STATUS CODE D12 STATUS CODE R8 1K 30W R8 1K 30W 1 2 3 1 2 3 MC2 MC2 CN12 CN12 1 2 RY3 RY3 CN8 CN8 1 2 3 4 TP1 TP1 D13 5V D13 5V...

Страница 107: ...al Dynamics AA 42X1312 Friday January 18 2008 2 2 Industrial Park 2 West Lebanon NH 03784 603 298 5711 PAK 200 Power Supply 400V non CE Thursday January 10 2008 12 56 07 Thermal Dynamics D E2 INTERNAL TERMINAL STRIP TB3 C9 sht 1 MOMENTARY START STOP START STOP A9 sht 1 UNDIVIDED ARC VOLTS FOR HEIGHT CONTROLS 24 VAC 1A STOP START 120 VAC 100ma Not in all units KEY PLUG TB1 TB2 RIBBON CABLE TEST SOC...

Страница 108: ...NALS CN6 16 Ckt Ribbon Cable 2 4 I_REF Scaled Cut Demand 5 PS_START Start 6 REDUNDANT_START Start2 8 INV_READY 9 PS_START disabled by Input_NG 12 OCR 13 PS_START disabled by OCR 14 TEMP_ERR 15 PS_START disabled by Temp _Err 600 DC FAN POWER A2 Sht 2 A2 Sht 2 LED3 INPUT NG LED3 INPUT NG 1 2 3 4 5 6 CN1 not used CN1 not used 1 2 3 4 CN4 CN4 1 2 3 4 CN32 CN32 1 2 3 4 CN1 CN1 1 5 8 MC1 C MC1 C CN2 CN2...

Страница 109: ...DC D2 Sht 2 C2 Capacitor 2 uf 430VAC A9 Sht 1 C3 Capacitor 47 uf 400V C1 Sht 2 C P1 Circuit protector ON OFF SW B2 Sht 1 10A 690V 3Ph C P2 Circuit protector 2 5A 125V D2 Sht 1 C P3 Circuit protector 3 15A 125V D2 Sht 1 C P4 Circuit protector 10A 125V E2 Sht 1 C P5 Circuit protector 2 5A 125V E2 Sht 1 C P6 Circuit protector 2 5A 125V F2 Sht 1 C P7 Circuit protector 5A 125V E2 Sht 1 C P8 Circuit pro...

Страница 110: ... 30W RY4 RY4 1 2 3 TP8 TP8 CN8 CN8 1 2 3 4 1 2 CN13 CN13 1 2 3 1 2 3 D28 CNC_PREFLOW D28 CNC_PREFLOW C P8 C P8 RY4 RY4 CN1 CN1 1 2 TP14 TP14 AC AC D3 AC AC D3 CN14 CN14 1 2 TP1 TP1 D12 STATUS CODE D12 STATUS CODE CN12 CN12 1 2 CN2 CN2 1 2 3 4 5 TP2 TP2 D1 GAS_ON D1 GAS_ON TP13 TP13 RY3 RY3 CN9 CN9 1 2 3 MC2 MC2 D13 5V D13 5V TP11 TP11 CN10 CN10 1 2 3 RY2 RY2 RY1 RY1 CN7 CN7 1 2 3 4 C12 C12 TB3 TB3...

Страница 111: ...Dynamics AA 42X1313 Friday January 18 2008 2 2 Industrial Park 2 West Lebanon NH 03784 603 298 5711 PAK 200 Power Supply 600V Thursday January 10 2008 14 32 11 Thermal Dynamics D MOMENTARY START STOP START STOP STOP START KEY PLUG RIBBON CABLE SIGNALS active low digital signal CN10 J35 26 Ckt Ribbon Cable 2 Cut Demand 4 Pilot Demand 6 Start 7 Start2 9 Pilot Enable 10 HF Enable 12 Pump Enable 13 Fa...

Страница 112: ...No 0 5057 Cover Date Rev Change s June 9 2008 AA First issue Oct 8 2008 AB Chapter 3 and 4 Up date and or add technical information flow and pressure requirements NOTE Thermal Dynamics uses the date on the manual cover to indicate the most recent revision of the manual ...

Страница 113: ...ai PR 200052 Telephone 86 21 69171135 Fax 86 21 69171139 Thermadyne Asia Sdn Bhd Lot 151 Jalan Industri 3 5A Rawang Integrated Industrial Park Jln Batu Arang 48000 Rawang Selangor Darul Ehsan West Malaysia Telephone 603 6092 2988 Fax 603 6092 1085 Cigweld Australia 71 Gower Street Preston Victoria Australia 3072 Telephone 61 3 9474 7400 Fax 61 3 9474 7510 Thermadyne Italy OCIM S r L Via Benaco 3 2...

Страница 114: ...Corporate Headquarters 16052 Swingley Ridge Road Suite 300 St Louis MO 63017 Telephone 636 728 3000 Email TDCSales Thermadyne com www thermadyne com ...

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