Grunbeck Delta-p Operation Manual Download Page 41

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Cleaning, inspection, maintenance

41 | 74

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● Perform the 0 °dH, 0 °f, 0 mmol/l test if necessary:

• Readjust the electronically controlled blending valve (refer to chapter 7.5).

• Check the soft water hardness again.

• Program the desired soft water hardness into the control unit.

● Check the programming of the control unit.

● Check the brine control:

• Salting

• Filling the brine tank

● Check the function of the safety fitting, e.g. system separator, against backflow.

● Check the function of the disinfection device in the control unit.

We recommend replacing the chlorine cell(s) after 2 years at the latest.

● Query regeneration counters, total soft water volume, error memory; a system data

printout is possible via the serial interface of the control unit.

We recommend replacing the push-in turbines after a total water volume of
20,000 m³ has been reached; however, at the latest after 3 years.

Reset the maintenance interval.

8.5

Consumables

CAUTION:

Insoluble impurities in the salt may cause malfunctions at the brine valve and at

the injector of the control valve.

● Dosage of salt according to requirements is not guaranteed.

► A defined salt quality is required for the reliable function of the water softener.

Only use salt tablets as per DIN EN 973 type A.

Consumables Delta-p

Quantity

Order no.

Regeneration salt

[kg]

127 001

Water test kit "Total hardness“

pc.

170 145

170 100

Summary of Contents for Delta-p

Page 1: ...We understand water Softening Water softener Delta p Operation manual ...

Page 2: ...this operation manual Without the written consent of Grünbeck Wasseraufbereitung GmbH no part of this manual may be reproduced in any way nor may any part be processed duplicated or distributed using electronic systems Contraventions of the aforementioned requirements shall be subject to compensation in damages We reserve the right to modifications by Grünbeck Wasseraufbereitung GmbH Translation o...

Page 3: ...he scope of supply 26 5 3 Installing the product 27 5 4 Preparation 28 6 Start up 30 6 1 Preparations 30 6 2 Adjusting the water softener Delta p 33 6 3 Handing over the operation manual to the operator 33 7 Operation 34 7 1 Information about the basic display 34 7 2 Request information 34 7 3 Trigger regeneration manually 35 7 4 Set current time 35 7 5 Setting the water hardness 36 7 6 Setting th...

Page 4: ...rmation and instructions that you must comply with for your personal safety as well as to avoid damage to property This symbol identifies instructions that you must comply with in order to avoid damage to property This symbol identifies important information about the product or its handling This symbol identifies work that is only allowed to be carried out by a specialist installer In Germany the...

Page 5: ...s e g within a software menu are highlighted in grey Menu item 1 5 3 Buttons Buttons are depicted with a doted frame Button 1 5 4 Instructions Single step instructions or instructions where the sequence of the actions is unimportant are indicated as follows Action Multi step instructions where the sequence of the actions must be observed are indicated as follows 1 First step a First action in the ...

Page 6: ...eferred to below as exchangers assume different operating states The following convention applies to the exchangers Depiction Explanation Exchanger Is in operation and usually has the lower remaining capacity Is due for regeneration next Exchanger Is in operation and usually has the higher remaining capacity Is due for regeneration next but one Exchanger Is exhausted and is currently being regener...

Page 7: ...ower input 2 SVGW test mark 9 Index of protection 3 DVGW test mark 10 Product designation 4 CE mark 11 QR code 5 Nominal pressure 12 Data matrix code 6 Ambient temperature 13 Order no 7 Power supply 14 Serial number Please specify the data shown on the type designation plate in order to speed up the processing of your enquiries or orders Therefore enter the necessary information in the table below...

Page 8: ...injuries due to electric shock Have damaged power supply cables replaced without delay Comply with the hygiene instructions in chapter 8 Failure to comply can result in microbiological contamination of your drinking water installation Only have persons working on your system that have read and understood the present manual and that are qualified to do such work due to their vocational training Onl...

Page 9: ...ations and directives amongst others during installation and start up Statutory regulations on environmental protection Provisions of the employers liability insurance associations DIN EN 806 Specifications for installations inside buildings conveying water for human consumption VDI DVGW 6023 part 6 Low Voltage Directive 2014 35 EU Appendix IV 2 4 Obligations on the specialist installer and or spe...

Page 10: ...correct discharge of the regeneration water Health risk due to contamination of the drinking water When installing a discharge line for the regeneration water do not connect any devices directly to the drain outlet of the water softener To install a drain use only the supplied black hose to allow the regeneration water to flow to the drain connection WARNING Danger of contamination of the drinking...

Page 11: ...threatened If the water softener is installed before a reverse osmosis system the feed line to the reverse osmosis system is not allowed to be configured as soft water with blending CAUTION Risk of uncontrolled water leakage during regeneration if there is a power failure Uncontrolled water leakage into the drain or brine tank If there is a power failure check the water softener and block the raw ...

Page 12: ... in these areas Continuous soft water supply Softening and partial softening of Well water Process water Boiler feed water Cooling water Air conditioning water Cold drinking water industrial water 3 2 Foreseeable misuse The water softeners Delta p cannot be used in these areas Slow removal of water Widely diverging performance Load above nominal flow Also comply with the information in the technic...

Page 13: ...central control valve and control unit 2 Brine tank with sieve bottom 3 4 Accessories You can retrofit your product with additional accessories Please contact your local Grünbeck representative or Grünbeck s headquarters in Hoechstaedt for details refer to www gruenbeck de Water softener Delta p Accessories Image Designation Order no ...

Page 14: ... turbine water meter via M Bus IEC870 The pulse output is proportional to the flow rate at the analogue output and relay contact of the Grünbeck control Dimensions 160x240x160 mm Parallel piping Delta p 2x1 PVC 185 450 Parallel piping Delta p 2x1 PVC 185 455 Parallel piping Delta p 2x1 PVC 185 460 Parallel piping Delta p 2x2 PVC 185 465 Parallel piping Delta p 3x2 PVC 185 470 Parallel piping Delta...

Page 15: ...or 50 of the next but one exchanger to be regenerated is exhausted The water softener regenerates with raw water 3 5 2 Chemical The exchanger contains ion exchanger resin in the form of small resin beads Sodium ions adhere to each resin bead Hard water with a large proportion of calcium and magnesium ions flows through the exchanger The ion exchanger resin absorbs calcium and magnesium ions from t...

Page 16: ...tton 2 Explanations 4 Button 5 Button P 4 2 Display screens Display GENO IONO matic3 First line Figure Explanation Blending valve not with Delta p I flashes while water is withdrawn ratio of raw water Blending motor runs M in order to maintain a constant blending hardness in case of a variable withdrawal volume 1 2 2 5 4 3 ...

Page 17: ... turbine water meter 1 2 or 3 Flow arrow Indicates the direction of flow when there is flow between the regeneration and transfer valves First filtrate Transfer valve Regeneration valve waste water to the drain Salting slow rinsing Regeneration valve Transfer valve brine or water to the exchanger Backwashing Regeneration valve Transfer valve waste water to the drain Filling the brine tank No water...

Page 18: ...tenance interval has expired Brine tank Displayed during regeneration Appropriate arrow for the corresponding regeneration step appears Brine is drawn out of the tank Raw water is fed into brine tank Pre alarm salt supply if installed Symbol appears when salt needs to be refilled Backlight Is switched on up to 10 minutes after the last button press Each press of a button initially activates the ba...

Page 19: ...l Press the button in the status level 1x 11x rotating through the display back to the basic display Menu level User Press the P button in the status level for more than 5 s Menu level Programming 1 Press the P button and the button in the status level at the same time for more than 1 s The display switches from time to the three flashing digits 000 preceded by a C 2 Press the or the button to sel...

Page 20: ...xist the settings for the opened parameter without changes press the button and the button at the same time The parameter will be closed and the display shows the unchanged value continuously Save parameters If the correct value flashes on the display press the P button to save it The parameter will be closed and the display shows the set value continuously Exit menu level When you have made and s...

Page 21: ...ion step Remaining time of the current regeneration step Step 4 Regeneration step Flow rate Operator Set the time Hours and minutes separately hh mm Set the actual raw water hardness Adjust soft water hardness with blending Must not be changed with Delta p I Programming levels To the settings and displays refer to chapter 4 5 4 5 Programming levels NOTE Non compliance will result in serious damage...

Page 22: ...m 1 Water softener Data record CA31 Delta p 1 CA32 Delta p 1 CA35 Delta p 1 CA36 Delta p 2 Warning Changes only permitted by Grünbeck s technical service authorised service company Depending on water softener nominal width 2 Capacity rate CA31 48 CA32 79 CA35 165 CA36 229 Depending on water softener nominal width Indication only 3 Turbine water meter Constant exchangers 0 0314 Indication only 4 Tu...

Page 23: ...n 0 0 3 80 210 2 Delay time for programmable output with setting 3 After the bottle changeover has been completed the contact opens again with a delay 0 5 0 1 9 9 3 Activation pre alarm salt supply optional 0 is not evaluated L Infrared light sensor detects the filling level in the brine tank If no object is detected within the adjustable switching gap for longer than 5 min warning Er A symbol app...

Page 24: ...tener Delta p 1 1 1 Delta p 1 1 31 Delta p 1 31 42 Delta p 2 31 42 The dividers in bold type indicate the sensible combinations of the water softener Delta p and dosing system GENODOS DME With other dividers the full flow rate of the water softener or dosing system cannot be achieved Resulting pulse sequence l pulse Pulse division 1 12 18 31 42 0 031 0 372 0 558 0 961 1 319 ...

Page 25: ...rol unit will be able to dry off WARNING Danger of contaminated drinking water if the work is not carried out properly Risk of infectious diseases Pay attention to hygiene when working on the installation 5 1 Requirements with regard to the installation site 5 1 1 Requirements with regard to the water connection Comply with the instructions on installation refer to chapter 2 7 For critical applica...

Page 26: ...rvention by the operator flow of water through the drain outlet or the brine tank Socket must carry continuous voltage Do not connect the socket with lighting and heating switches In case of power failure check the water softener and shut off the water supply if necessary 5 2 Checking the scope of supply No Designation No Designation 1 Cover 4 Exchanger bottles 2 Water test kit Total hardness 5 Ce...

Page 27: ...00 540 No Designation No Designation 1 Drinking water filter 2 Connection set The water softener Delta p is installed in the water pipe in accordance with DIN EN 806 2 and DIN 1988 200 Please observe The nominal connection diameter and connection size Installation in horizontal orientation The designation of the flow direction on the housing must correspond to the flow direction on site Stress fre...

Page 28: ...ith protective caps against contamination Remove the protective caps before starting installation WARNING Danger of drinking water contamination due to stagnation Bacterial growth in the drinking water According to VDI DVGW 6023 filling the system with raw water prior to starting the designated operation is prohibited 5 4 1 Filling the exchangers No Designation No Designation 1 Centring the riser ...

Page 29: ...o the left 2 Centre the riser pipe in the exchanger 3 Put on the filling adapter 4 Place the pipe section on the filling adapter 5 Fill the glass through the funnel into the exchanger 6 Make sure that the glass filling is evenly distributed 7 Fill the resin through the funnel into the exchanger 8 Remove the funnel pipe section and filling adapter 9 Clean the threads and sealing surfaces on the exc...

Page 30: ...ean rooms Do not use opened packs Clean the packs before opening them Fill the salt directly from the pack into the brine tank Close the brine tank immediately after filling Proceed as follows to fill the brine tank 1 Remove the cover from the brine tank 2 Carefully fill the brine tank with raw water until the water level is about 30 mm above the sieve bottom CAUTION Insoluble impurities in the sa...

Page 31: ...hat to do 4 d Regeneration of each exchanger is sufficient for the start up 4 d A disinfection of the water softener by Grünbeck s customer service is required before start up refer to www gruenbeck de Venting the system 1 Connect the mains plug to the socket 2 Open the client s valve at the raw water inlet 3 Trigger a regeneration by hand refer to chapter 7 3 The three exchangers are now regenera...

Page 32: ...he sample valves b Take samples from each of the three bottle adapters on its sampling valve c In the case of systems with a blending valve take an additional water sample at the client s withdrawal point downstream of the system d Close the client s withdrawal point downstream of the water softener 2 Measure the hardness of the samples with the water test kit total hardness 3 Record your work in ...

Page 33: ...sed service company beforehand The water softeners Delta p are controlled by quantity The operating parameters are already stored in the GENO IONO matic3 control unit During start up all parameters must be entered which are required for the automatic calculation of the regeneration interval Check the factory set data record The GENO IONO matic3 control unit is operated via buttons refer to chapter...

Page 34: ... function by which the current regeneration was triggered Whether a regeneration is active The time that is stored in the system 7 2 Request information Status level Information level Press the button to call up information about other parameters Button pressed Display Explanation 1x XXX X Remaining capacity exchanger In operation 2x XXX X Remaining capacity exchanger 3x XXX X Remaining capacity e...

Page 35: ...service is due 7 3 Trigger regeneration manually Status level Follow the steps below to trigger a regeneration manually Press the button for more than 5 s Water softener carries out regeneration 7 4 Set current time Status level Operator menu level Follow the steps below to set the hours on the display of the control unit 1 Press the P button to open the parameter for hours The display for hours f...

Page 36: ... minutes You have set the time 7 5 Setting the water hardness 7 5 1 Actual raw water hardness Status level Operator menu level 1 Press button to switch to the display for actual raw water hardness 2 Press button P to open the parameter for the actual raw water hardness The display for the actual raw water hardness flashes 3 Press the button or the button to set the intended value of the parameter ...

Page 37: ... Press button P to save the parameter for soft water hardness with blending You have set the soft water hardness with blending 7 6 Setting the operating parameters NOTE Non compliance will result in serious damage to product and user The function of the product can be significantly impaired and result in a health hazard for users The settings described here may only be performed by specialist inst...

Page 38: ...ng with the inspection and maintenance intervals is important for trouble free and hygienic operation 8 2 Cleaning WARNING Danger of contaminated drinking water if the work is not carried out properly Risk of infectious diseases Pay attention to hygiene when working on the installation NOTE Do not clean the product with alcohol or cleaning agents containing solvents Such substances damage componen...

Page 39: ...to DIN EN 973 A refer to chapter 6 1 1 Check the system for leaks Check the tightness of the control valve to the drain in the operating state without regeneration procedure 8 4 Maintenance 8 4 1 Semi annual maintenance WARNING Danger of contaminated drinking water if the work is not carried out properly Risk of infectious diseases Pay attention to hygiene when working on the installation The foll...

Page 40: ... tightness of the control valve to the drain in the operating state without regeneration procedure Enter all data and work in the operation log 8 4 2 Annual maintenance Annual maintenance must be performed by the Grünbeck s technical service authorised service company or by an approved company WARNING Danger of contaminated drinking water if the work is not carried out properly Risk of infectious ...

Page 41: ... years at the latest Query regeneration counters total soft water volume error memory a system data printout is possible via the serial interface of the control unit We recommend replacing the push in turbines after a total water volume of 20 000 m has been reached however at the latest after 3 years Reset the maintenance interval 8 5 Consumables CAUTION Insoluble impurities in the salt may cause ...

Page 42: ...ent malfunctions and loss of warranty Only use genuine parts Seals are wearing parts Although these parts are wearing parts we grant a limited warranty period of 6 months Wearing parts Delta p Place Figure Wearing parts Control valve Seals injector servomotors turbine water meters transfer valves Brine valve Brine float and closing valves Disinfection unit Chlorine cells and seals ...

Page 43: ... when the maintenance interval has expired and Er A For all other faults Er X opens the fault signal contact terminals 39 41 Both signals signal contact and fault signal contact are active If malfunctions occur that cannot be rectified by following the instructions below contact Grünbeck s technical service authorised service company Have the installation data handy refer to chapter 14 9 1 Message...

Page 44: ...e from the regeneration valve to the control unit is incorrectly connected or defective Microswitch S3 S5 defective Motor of the regeneration valve defective Control unit defective Notify Grünbeck s technical service authorised service company Fuse F2 has tripped Replace fuse with the same type refer to chapter 13 3 Pressure reducer on regeneration valve set incorrectly completely open Notify Grün...

Page 45: ... in the brine tank and top up with salt tablets according to DIN EN 973 A Wait for 5 minutes and then acknowledge fault Call Grünbeck s technical service authorised service company Carbon electrodes consumed Call Grünbeck s technical service authorised service company Er 4 Short circuit on carbon electrodes Call Grünbeck s technical service authorised service company Check connection cable control...

Page 46: ... water softener exceeded Risk of damage to system components Reduce the flow rate via the water softener until the nominal flow rate is no longer exceeded Er D Run time monitoring motor blending valve has responded Soft water hardness is programmed although no blending valve is installed Set parameters for soft water hardness with blending to 0 dH 0 f 0 mol m Parameters for soft water hardness sel...

Page 47: ...t water hardness Check and correct the setting of the blending valve Supply of raw water interrupted Open the shut off valves Flow rate above specified nominal flow on type designation plate Reduce flow rate Not enough salt in brine tank Check the salt level and refill Resin in discharge pipe Defective jet system Call Grünbeck s technical service authorised service company Pressure loss too great ...

Page 48: ...10 Disposal Do not dispose of the packaging the product and or the accessories with the domestic waste Comply with the applicable national regulations for disposal Make sure that the packaging the product and the accessories are disposed of properly ...

Page 49: ...flow rate soft water with blending raw water hardness 20 dH 35 6 f 3 56 mmol l Soft water hardness 8 dH 14 2 f 1 42 mmol l not Delta p m3 h 5 8 3 13 3 20 Pressure loss bar 0 5 0 8 0 5 0 8 Nominal flow rate according to DIN EN 14743 or kV value at pressure loss 1 0 bar theoretical reference value m3 h 4 2 5 6 11 3 13 4 Continuous flow Maximum value reduced by hard raw water from 20 dH 35 6 f 3 56 m...

Page 50: ... 1060 Accessories for brine tank 860 1060 210 l 1250 1450 750 l E Height safety over flow Standard brine tank mm 575 775 785 985 Accessories for brine tank 785 985 210 l 1100 1300 750 l F Ø Standard brine tank mm 410 570 Accessories for brine tank 570 210 l 900 750 l G Ø Exchanger tank mm 210 257 369 406 H Width of water softener mm 580 630 900 960 I Recommended foundation depth min with standard ...

Page 51: ...ume per m and dH l m x dH 1 42 Waste water volume per m and f l m x f 0 79 Waste water volume per m and mol l mol 7 8 Operating water volume l 4 2 6 9 14 4 20 General Max water temperature C 30 Max ambient temperature in case of purely technical applications C 40 Max ambient temperature in line with the German Drinking Water Ordinance C 25 Iron content in raw water max mg l 0 2 Manganese content i...

Page 52: ...ve Delta p No Designation No Designation 1 max continuous flow rate in of nominal flow rate at 0 dH 0 f 0 mmol l 2 Raw water hardness in dH Conversion table dH 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 f 24 9 28 5 32 0 35 6 39 2 42 7 46 3 49 8 53 4 57 0 60 5 mmol l 2 49 2 85 3 20 3 56 3 92 4 27 4 63 4 98 5 34 5 70 6 05 ...

Page 53: ...chnical specifications 53 74 BA_TD3 BM001en_014_Delta p docx 11 2 Pressure loss curves Pressure loss curves Delta p No Designation No Designation 1 Pressure loss in bar at 0 dH 0 f 0 mmol l 2 Flow in m h ...

Page 54: ... in the domestic environment for drinking and all other food preparation purposes for personal hygiene and cleaning as well as for cleaning objects that do not only temporarily come into contact with foodstuffs or the human body Turbine water meter A turbine Woltmann fitted in the system which transmits pulses to a sensor by means of a magnet thereby allowing the flow rate through the system to be...

Page 55: ...liers will inform you about the sodium content of your raw water Sample calculation Raw water hardness 28 dH 50 f Sodium content in the raw water 10 5 mg l Admissible increase of the sodium content by softening 200 mg l 10 5 mg l 189 5 mg l 189 5 8 2 23 dH 41 f The raw water hardness is allowed to be reduced from 28 dH 50 f 5 mmol l to 5 dH 9 f 0 9 mmol l 12 4 Hardness range Recommendation soft wa...

Page 56: ...ous diseases Pay attention to hygiene when working on the installation WARNING Danger of drinking water contamination due to stagnation Bacterial growth in the drinking water According to VDI DVGW 6023 filling the system with raw water prior to starting the designated operation is prohibited Note Die water softeners Delta p 1 and 1 are filled with resin ex works 13 1 Water installation ...

Page 57: ...Mounting instructions 57 74 BA_TD3 BM001en_014_Delta p docx ...

Page 58: ...Mounting instructions 58 74 BA_TD3 BM001en_014_Delta p docx ...

Page 59: ...Mounting instructions 59 74 BA_TD3 BM001en_014_Delta p docx ...

Page 60: ...Mounting instructions 60 74 BA_TD3 BM001en_014_Delta p docx ...

Page 61: ...n WARNING Live components Danger of an electric shock when working on electrical systems Disconnect the mains plug before you start working on the system connections The following work is only allowed to be carried out by a specialist installer No Designation No Designation 1 blue 2 brown ...

Page 62: ...Mounting instructions 62 74 BA_TD3 BM001en_014_Delta p docx ...

Page 63: ... F2 0 63 A slow blow 49 PE green yellow Earth wire Voltage free contacts Contact rating max 230 V 1 A 37 38 39 Signal contact Normally open contact opens when a signal occurs Maintenance interval pre alarm lack of salt Er A connection error to the optional Profibus module Er F 39 40 41 Fault signal contact Normally open contact opens when a fault occurs 42 43 44 Relay function programmable via Ext...

Page 64: ...5 green Blending valve Motor 24 V blending Motor 24 V blending valve V Blending valve is not available in industrial systems Delta p I 1 grey Motor wires blue 2 black Motor wires black 3 Brown Motor wires red Float switch Pre alarm lack of salt accessories Infra red light sensor detects the filling level of salt in the brine tank If the orange LED on the light sensor lights up Object present and t...

Page 65: ...Operation log 65 74 BA_TD3 BM001en_014_Delta p docx 14 Operation log Softening Water softener Delta p_______ Serial no ...

Page 66: ...ate signature Installation accessories Water softener make type Drain connection acc to DIN EN 1717 Floor drain available Material of the line downstream of the system Safety device Regeneration water lifting system Make Operating values Water pressure bar Reading of residential water meter m3 Raw water hardness measured dH Soft water hardness set dH Remarks ...

Page 67: ...ler setting checked Regeneration activation checked Injector and sieve cleaned Control valve checked for tightness Motor transfer regeneration valve function checked Functional check chlorine cell read off mA from code after 5 min salting Brine tank and brine valve cleaned Operation and setting of brine valve checked Gaskets and hose connections checked Safety fitting e g system separator checked ...

Page 68: ...ler setting checked Regeneration activation checked Injector and sieve cleaned Control valve checked for tightness Motor transfer regeneration valve function checked Functional check chlorine cell read off mA from code after 5 min salting Brine tank and brine valve cleaned Operation and setting of brine valve checked Gaskets and hose connections checked Safety fitting e g system separator checked ...

Page 69: ...ler setting checked Regeneration activation checked Injector and sieve cleaned Control valve checked for tightness Motor transfer regeneration valve function checked Functional check chlorine cell read off mA from code after 5 min salting Brine tank and brine valve cleaned Operation and setting of brine valve checked Gaskets and hose connections checked Safety fitting e g system separator checked ...

Page 70: ... designation plate The aforementioned system also complies with the following directives and provisions EMC 2014 30 EU Directive 2014 35 EU The following harmonised standards have been applied DIN EN 61000 6 2 2006 03 DIN EN 61000 6 3 2011 09 The following national standards and regulations have been applied DIN 19636 100 2008 02 DIN EN 14743 2007 09 DIN 31000 2017 04 VDE 1000 2017 04 Responsible ...

Page 71: ...ned water 55 I Inspection 38 Iron content 52 M Manganese content 52 Menu level 5 P Period of inactivity 10 31 55 R Raw water 10 11 15 46 48 50 51 55 56 Raw water hardness 21 36 39 47 Regeneration water 10 55 S Scope of supply 26 Sodium content 55 56 Soft water 11 12 21 35 37 39 47 48 51 55 56 Spare parts 29 Stagnation 10 15 55 57 T Turbine water meter 14 ...

Page 72: ......

Page 73: ...Grünbeck Wasseraufbereitung GmbH Josef Grünbeck Str 1 89420 Hoechstaedt Germany For more information go to www gruenbeck com 49 9074 41 0 49 9074 41 100 info gruenbeck de www gruenbeck de ...

Page 74: ...Grünbeck Wasseraufbereitung GmbH Josef Grünbeck Str 1 89420 Hoechstaedt Germany For more information go to www gruenbeck com 49 9074 41 0 49 9074 41 100 info gruenbeck com www gruenbeck com ...

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