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connection cable towards the insulation and then stick all into the clip.
This connection can maintain like this in most of the following
experiments.

Fig.3.20:a) connection of generator cable and crocodile clips, b) detail,
how to put in the cable to provide a stable contact.

Do not connect the generator to the steam engine for the first experiments!

3.3 First experiments with the generator

Components like before, 1 orange LED added

For the first experiment with generator (not connected to the steam engine)
you mount a circuit with an orange LED. The longer wire of the LED is the
positive pole and shows into the direction where the red connection of the
generator is connected. When all parts are assembled one turns the axis of
the generator (together with the belt wheel) forward and backward, holding
it between thumb and index finger. In one direction the LED will flash, in
the other direction she does not shine.

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Содержание D100E

Страница 1: ...1 A b b 2 2 1 M o nt a g e d es K es se ls Steambox D 100 E E Box E 50 ...

Страница 2: ...2 ...

Страница 3: ...3 Steambox D 100E and E Box E50 Wilhelm Schröder GmbH Co KG D 58511 LÜDENSCHEID Schützenstraße 12 phone 49 2351 9847 0 e mail info wilesco de ...

Страница 4: ...t possible mistakes via mail A symbol in a triangle is indicating a possible dangerous situation which needs more caution and attention Imprint This is a publication from Wilesco Wilhelm Schröder GmbH Co KG D 58511 LÜDENSCHEID All rights including translation are reserved Any reproduction f ex photo copies microfilming electronic data processing need a written permission of the author Prints also ...

Страница 5: ... understand how a steam engine works it also creates a lot of joy to develop it even further With the Steam Box and the E Box 50 and its components you can practically experience and understand the transforming processes beginning with the thermo energy through the mechanical energy and finally turned into electrical energy The experiments are structured and build up one on the other They are easy...

Страница 6: ...6 ...

Страница 7: ...1 TRICKS AND TIPS FOR A SUCCESFUL ASSEMBLING 17 2 2 ASSEMBLY INSTRUCTIONS STEP BY STEP 18 Step 1 Assembly of the boiler 18 Step 2 Mounting the burner slide and boiler house 18 Step 3 Assembling and mounting the flywheel 19 Step 4 Assembling the cylinder unit 20 Step 5 Mounting the steam pipe chimney and final assembly 21 2 3 PRECAUTION INSTRUCTIONS 23 2 4 PREPARATION FOR THE FIRST TEST RUN 25 3 EX...

Страница 8: ...7 STEP BY STEP GENERATING BRIGHT LIGHT OUT OF STEAM 55 3 7 1 More light with 2 white LEDs 58 3 7 2 Light from four LEDs generated throught the steam engine 59 3 8 STORAGE OF THE ELECTRIC ENERGY 61 3 8 1 Charging the capacitor storage through the steam engine 61 3 8 2 Diode blocking discharge Schottkydiode 64 3 8 3 Charge indicator for the electrolytic 66 3 8 4 Using stored energy 69 3 8 5 The stea...

Страница 9: ...ype of a steam engine with cylinder and piston In 1698 the British engineer Thomas Savery constructed an engine working on steam which was supposed to pump the groundwater In 1712 the engineer Thomas Newcomen developed the principle even further into an atmospheric steam engine Information The atmospheric steam engine is a precursor model with the following function water steam is pressed into the...

Страница 10: ...to generate electricity they were mainly substituted through steam turbines which worked more efficiently Nowadays functioning nuclear power bases are so to speak modern steam engines working with the same principle Here one uses the problematic nuclear energy to heat up the water 1 2 1 How to change water into steam To transform the liquid state of H2O into water steam we need to heat it up till ...

Страница 11: ...ding on the use and form of the steam engine The main intension is to provide constantly enough steam so that the pistons of the steam engine are moving 1 2 3 The flywheel The steam engine transforms the back and forward movement into a rotating movement The classical steam engine has a heavy flywheel to provide an even rotation This helps to overcome the upper and lower dead centres The flywheel ...

Страница 12: ...p of the steam exhausting hole and the used steam escapes When the piston has overcome the rear dead centre the steam hole moves again on top of the steam supplying hole steam enters the cylinder again and the explained process repeats itself The principle of the oscillating steam engine The water steam provided by the boiler enters through the steam sup plying hole into the cylinder and presses t...

Страница 13: ...haft through a connecting rod the flywheel now turns on half a rotation Now the slider is moved The steam feed happens now on the other side of the piston which is then pressed backward through the steam The cooled steam leaves through the steam outlet f ex through the chimney of the steam engine model The process starts again Fig 1 02 The principle of the valve controlled steam engine a cut throu...

Страница 14: ...steam the engine itself runs almost silent On the other hand we have a very essential disadvantage The steam engine has a very low efficiency only 10 to 12 which means only 12 of the involved energy of the fuel is transformed into kinetic energy 1 3 1 Comparison oscillating and valve controlled steam engine With the model Steam Box and the model D20 one can explore easily the difference between th...

Страница 15: ... principle of the steam engine and bring it into the world with modern materials One advantage to the combustion engine is the external combustion process and the use of a variety of fuels Another one is the overload capacity of the steam engine Overload capacity means that the nominal value and the continuous power transfer can be shortly and without problems exceeded One can prove this in the de...

Страница 16: ...ar round and energy self sufficient concept Instead of the steam engine one also can use a Stirling engine Both constructions can work with all kinds of solid and liquid fuels f ex wood coal biogas etc Information If you work with the E Box 50 or a different model you can skip this chapter 2 and move on to the next 3 and continue to experiment with the steam engine model you have ...

Страница 17: ...ed Now the screw can easily be lead to the prepared drilled hole Fig 2 01 Screwdriver becomes magnetised and holds the screw To tighten the screw properly it makes sense to use the screwdriver on the one side and on the other side hold the screw nut with a spanner It is helpful to put all the small pieces like screws nuts and seals into a flat container so they do not get lost How to lubricate the...

Страница 18: ...ease follow the instructions exactly and step by step so that the operation of the steam engine is successful Step 1 Assembly of the boiler Insert the fixing bracket of the boiler through the boiler house 2 from beneath until the angled sides fit against the upper flanges of the boiler house 2 Locate in the centre notches to restrict sideways movement now the bracket will stay in place due to its ...

Страница 19: ...the stickers watch water level on the base plate 1 under the water level glass and the sticker of the model number next to it Fig 2 2 2 mounting the burner slide and the boiler house Step 3 Assembling and mounting the flywheel On the short side of the flywheel axle 8 fit one bearing frame 7 and then screw on the crank plate 12 On the other side of the axle slide onto in the following order the dis...

Страница 20: ... screw M3x16 17 Now tighten her into the threaded hole on the cylinder 20 by turning the screw only 1 2 times Do not turn further otherwise this will damage the cylinder Now fit the baffle plate and the condensed water tray to the base plate using two screws 24 and nuts 25 Insert the screws from underneath the base plate Fig 2 2 4 mounting the cylinder unit ...

Страница 21: ... at right angles to the flywheel axle are any adjustments necessary loosen the nuts holding the baffle plate adjust and retighten Now with the use of the supplied spanner tighten the steam pipe connections Put a large gasket onto the whistle 22 and the spring loaded safety valve 21 and fix it by hand not using a tool on the boiler Using a combination of gaskets you can position the whistle correct...

Страница 22: ...22 Fig 2 3 1 A complete steam engine model without generator Before operating read the instructions carefully We wish you lots of fun in building and operating this steam engine ...

Страница 23: ...cification will also invalidate the warranty 3 All parts which are under steam pressure so as boiler spring loaded safety valve etc leave our works only after a 100 examination The spring loaded safety valve must not be manipulated The operation of the steam engine without any spring loaded safety valve is not allowed The function of the spring loaded valve has to be checked before each operation ...

Страница 24: ...necessary repair should be carried out by authorized staff or at the WILESCO company 8 The steam engine meets all safety standards and actual regulations Every boiler has been submitted to a bursting pressure and water test of 5 bar The operating pressure is maximally 1 5 bar 9 Imperatively keep the operating instructions together with your steam box 10 We advise you to place the stationary steame...

Страница 25: ...y so that the operation of the whistle is possible without having contact with the boiler Do not pull or pull out the lever only move it carefully from side to side Note The steam whistle makes it possible to regulate easily any overpres sure in the boiler or check before oiling whether the boiler is still under pressure 3 Only oil the piston when there is no pressure in the boiler To check this o...

Страница 26: ...use the room should be well ventilated To prevent unpleasant smells the fuel tablets should be burnt out they should not be blown out If there is not enough water in the boiler place the burner slide on a fireproofed surface until the tablets have burned out completely 5 When steam can be seen turn the flywheel by hand to let the condensation in the pipes and the cylinder escape Then the steam eng...

Страница 27: ...27 Fig 2 3 2 Steam engine of the Steam Box with generator ...

Страница 28: ...28 ...

Страница 29: ... and the electrical wiring a machine works as an engine or a generator The generator with its permanent excitement has the advantage to create the field for induction generating electricity through a permanent magnet instead of using a coil This construction saves energy which is normally used to establish the electric field In cases of low rotating speed of a steam engine it avoids that there is ...

Страница 30: ...belt itself stays without tension Take the conical end in the Fig 3 0 3 the right end and stick it into the cylindrical end and screw it in with 1 2 turns The dismounting you do in the reversed order Fig 3 0 3 connecting the transmission belt a first step b second step The Steam Box contains transmission belts One can cut with a strong scissor the transmission belt into the right length For the tr...

Страница 31: ...ents can be configured without soldering or screwing One can design circuits and experiment with them by changing or exchanging different components Dates This bread board has 170 contacts in a 2 54mm grid The 170 contacts in the middle range are each connected by vertical strips in rows of five measurements 45mm x 33mm x 9mm distance of contacts 2 54 mm 100 mil cable connection size 0 3 0 8 mm AW...

Страница 32: ...ting the end of the wire diagonally with a side cutter is also supportive Short wires like you find at the LEDs you stick in with flat piers or a pincer so they do not bend over One can cut some jumpers with a diameter of 0 6 mm out of the jumper wire Measure the approximately length of the jumper and add the length of the ends which will stick in the contacts Remove the cable insulation at the en...

Страница 33: ...ng LEDS and a red flashing LED You can identify the flashing LED through its black spot within its red enclosure The dark spot is the integrated circuit which causes the LED to flash as soon as the correct voltage is applied LEDs should always be operated with a series resistor for current limiting otherwise they can break Fig 3 08 circuit symbol LED the arrow shows the technical direction of the ...

Страница 34: ...gh a flattened enclosure Fig 3 10 flashing LED with integrated flash IC 3 1 6 Electrolytic Electrolytic capacitors Electrolytic capacitors have a high capacity compared to normal capacitors One can imagine the capacitor with 2 metal plates as it is usually shown in the circuit symbol The first plate insulated by an oxide layer dielectric The second plate consists out of an electrolyte which gives ...

Страница 35: ... following capacities 1000µF and 4700µF Fig 3 11 circuit symbol electrolytic capacitors left the positive pole Information μF means microfarad the unit μ is one millionth of the ba sic unit Fig 3 12 Electrolytic capacitor with connecting wires The positive pole is the longer connection wire In addition the negative pole is designated with a bright line on the enclosure For simplicity the term elec...

Страница 36: ...to built up in contrary direction direction of the arrow to overcome the spring pressure of the valve The valve opens and the current flows The pressure which is mentioned in this mechanical model to overcome the spring pressure corresponds to the forward voltage of the diode A certain voltage in the flowing direction of the diode is needed to move into a conductive state Fig 3 14 Schottykdiode ty...

Страница 37: ...the form of coded coloured rings Enclosed are carbon film resistors with the different values shown in the following table amount Resistor value 1 ring 1 number 2 ring 2 number 3 ring Multiplica tor 4 ring Tolerance 1 1 Ohm brown black gold gold 1 10 Ohm brown black black gold 1 100 Ohm brown black brown gold 2 1 K Ohm brown black red gold Fig 3 15 to the left a photo of a resistor to the right th...

Страница 38: ...ting or measuring the approximate length of the jumper plus the length for the wire ends that will be inserted into the plug contacts The ends are stripped of insulation for ca 8 mm Connection wires pinched off diagonally with the wire cutter make insertion in the bread board contacts easier With these wires you can establish the electric connections between the single contacts of the bread board ...

Страница 39: ...s long established as the switch is pressed Letting go of the switch is stopping the flow again Please mount the 4 legs of the switch as shown in the figure The switch will not work with wrongly twisted mounting because the connections are internally connected Fig 3 18 a switch on the bread board and b connecting assignment Fig 3 19 circuit symbol switch ...

Страница 40: ...lips red black 2 pins 5 resistor carbon Watt 1 10 100 Ohm 2x 1K 0 5m wire rot 0 6 mm 0 5m wire black 0 6 mm Note It is recommended to follow the instructions and the order given in the booklet This facilitates the understanding and eases the mounting and changes Later on you can repeat the experiments in your own order of choice Recommendation of the following order read the instructions mount the...

Страница 41: ...ies and functions of the generator in the following chapters through the practical experiments In the text the current machine is named generator when transforming mechanical energy into electricity Connecting the generator Components generator crocodile clips The generator has two connections one with a red and another one with a black cable He generates pulsating direct current You have a positi...

Страница 42: ...rst experiments with the generator Components like before 1 orange LED added For the first experiment with generator not connected to the steam engine you mount a circuit with an orange LED The longer wire of the LED is the positive pole and shows into the direction where the red connection of the generator is connected When all parts are assembled one turns the axis of the generator together with...

Страница 43: ...can construct a rotation direction indicator Depending in which direction you move the generator one or the other LED flashes Also one can exercise whether the LEDs are properly connected or not 3 4 1 The transfer of the circuit The transfer of a circuit diagram into a circuit on the bread board will be described in the following example with the rotation direction indicator and two LEDs In the Fi...

Страница 44: ...stick in the resistor f ex R1 series resistor It is oposite with the diodes and the LEDs The LEDs have a longer and a shorter connection wire The longer wire is the positive pole the anode the shorter one is the negative connection the cathode Even when they are connected the wrong way around they will not break The cables coming from the generator connected with the red and black crocodile clips ...

Страница 45: ...es resistor 100 Ohm It makes sense to use the LEDs only in combination with a series resistor to avoid their destruction when there is a high rotation and therefore a high voltage of the generator In the first experiments the generator is used separately from the steam engine You can make the LEDs flash by using your thumb and index finger and turn the axis of the generator strongly With the corre...

Страница 46: ...med the physical current direction in contrary to the technical current direction where is defined that the electric current flows from the positive pole to the negative one The technical current di rection is always used in circuit diagrams f ex with LEDs diodes and the generator Fig 3 25 Diagram of the principle of the technical current direction in a closed electric circuit from the positive po...

Страница 47: ...chine one uses a two piece compression fitting in combination with the generator mounting support You can install the generator to almost all basic plates of the Wilesco steam engine models Depending on the type of the steam engine model they produce rotations from 1000 2000R min at the axis of the flywheel Fig 3 26 Parts for mounting the generator a two piece holder of the generator b mounting su...

Страница 48: ...ne line Now tighten the screws and finally also the compression fitting underneath so that the generator is well fixed Fig 3 27 Assembling of the generator a both pulley wheels in one line b compression fitting underneath the basic plate 3 5 1 Generator to connect mechanically with the flywheel of the steam engine Assemble the transmission belt and arrange it on the pulley wheel of the generator a...

Страница 49: ... only the small pulley wheel even if you have access to more potent steam engine models With the big pulley wheel on the shaft of fly wheel the rotational speed and the voltage of the generator will become so high that the generator and the electric circuits might get damaged 3 5 2 Measuring the voltage of the generator Components generator multimeter Now you can measure the voltage of the generat...

Страница 50: ...50 Fig 3 29 measuring the voltage of the generator with a multimeter Fig 3 30 Symbols of the circuit diagram left the symbol for the generator right the symbol for the measuring instrument ...

Страница 51: ...nal speed by closing or opening the steam inlet more or less 3 5 3 The direction of the rotation of the steam engine and the generator Depending on the steam engine model you use one can make experiments with the direction of the rotation of the steam engine in connection with the generator Oscillating steam engine models like the Steam Box D 100 E model only have one possible rotation direction o...

Страница 52: ...has a permanent magnet Electricity is induced into the rotor runner the permanent magnet is on the outside The generated electricity will be rectified with a commutator and can then be taken from the red and black connection cable The actual voltage depends on the rotational speed the actual electricity depends on the construction of the generator and the torque of the steam engine 3 6 1 Evaluatin...

Страница 53: ...istors before starting the engine and then you can stick them into the bread board while the engine is running You have a little more than 5 minutes to run the experiment if you take 2 dry spirit tablets and the according amount of water The orange LED will show you optically whether the voltage of the generator is dropping or continuous Wait till the rotational speed of the steam engine has estab...

Страница 54: ...ut at the generator and now the short cut electricity of the generator flows It might happen that the drive belt slides of or the steam engine model decelerates drastically This process does not harm the generator nor the steam engine model Fig 3 34 principle of the circuit Stress test with a multimeter in the circuit to show the power indicator If there is a multimeter available you can start the...

Страница 55: ... resistors show that a bigger steam engine model has no problems with an additional need of electricity If you have a multimeter you also can measure the current 3 7 Step by step generating bright light out of steam Components generator prepare electrolytic capacitor 1000µF and electrolytic 4700µF series resistor 1 K Ohm white LEDs crocodile clips Through plugging the different components into the...

Страница 56: ... of the steam engine model is connected through the transmission belt with the pulley wheel of the axis of the generator Note Using a higher transmission towards the generator working with more powerful steam engine models does harm the generator and the electronic because the rotational speed is too high and the voltage at the generator can become more then 10V Connect the cables of the generator...

Страница 57: ... wave caused by the continuous interruptions of the commutator of the generator One can use the mounting of the experiment and the running engine and continue with more experiments to gain an improvement In the next experiment one can integrate an electrolytic capacitor if you wish to smooth the wavy voltage Make sure that you connect the positive pole of the electrolytic with the red cable and th...

Страница 58: ...l on the diagram Picturing the electronically smoothing process To create a picture for the expression smoothing electricity through an electrolytic we imagine that electricity behaves like water We can compare an electrolytic with a water bucket with a hole in the bottom If you fill intermittently the bucket with a ladle with water it would continuously flow out of the hole in an uninterrupted st...

Страница 59: ...ve how powerful the small steam engine of the Steam Box D 100E is Plug in the series resistors and the red LED in the upper part of the bread board like shown in the left picture The current is lead through the switch and the jumpers to the LEDs and to the electrolytic in the lower part of the bread board The right figure shows the diagram of the circuit on the bread board taken from the other sid...

Страница 60: ...rown black brown gold Fig 3 42 Assembly of the bread board and b detail of the assembly a picture taken from the other side Fig 3 43 circuit diagram with more LEDs Note When the steam engine is decelerating one can try to slow down the fly wheel even hold it for a short while and then start it again The LEDs then will shine brighter again white white red ...

Страница 61: ... opening the crane we can take out water voltage 3 8 1 Charging the capacitor storage through the steam engine There are different types of energy storages One possibility of storage we find in the electrolytic The advantage is that they last a long time There capacity of storage is little compared to a battery Though for the experiments it works well and one can explore the principle of storage w...

Страница 62: ...g one electrolytic into the bread board the positive pole is especially marked and charge it through the generator for a couple of seconds while the steam engine is running Additional experiment slow down and stop the fly wheel of the steam engine shortly and then let it run again The orange LED flashes while the generator works it goes of when stopping the fly wheel Additional experiment take awa...

Страница 63: ... does not keep the charge when the steam engine or the generator is shortly stopped Still the Led continues to shine for a short while when the generator is disconnected from the bread board one crocodile clip Is there a leak or what is happening With this charging system the electrolytic is discharging backwards into the generator Here it is not possible to store the energy efficiently and contin...

Страница 64: ...locked With siliceous diodes the current starts flowing with a voltage from ca 0 6 till 0 7V or 700mV mini Volt A Schottkydiode allows the current to flow already with 0 25V Note blockage diodes avoid the discharging of the storage Normal siliceous diodes destroy about 0 6V of the generated voltage Schottkydiodes only 0 25V Using a charge system we have to take the loss of energy into account beca...

Страница 65: ...charged by the generator is keeping the voltage and storing it Fig 3 50 circuit diagram discharge protection diode You can measure the voltage which is stored in the electrolytic with a multimeter Switch the multimeter onto the direct current measuring area DC 20V and connect the cables of the multimeter with the connection wires of the electrolytic according to the polarity ...

Страница 66: ...imple charge indicator which shows the state of charge of the electrolytic through the voltage indicator 3 8 3 Charge indicator for the electrolytic Assembly of the experiment components like before additional one more series resistor 1 K Ohm red black brown gold 1 red flash LED Mount the circuit by plugging the components into the bread board according to the figure In the upper part of the bread...

Страница 67: ...o the instructions in chapter 2 4 The pulley wheel of the generator and the steam engine are connected with the transmission belt Start the steam engine and wait till the fly wheel is running properly Then connect the crocodile clips which are connected to the generator with the pins on the bread board One can observe after a couple of minutes that the red flash LED first flashes weakly and then b...

Страница 68: ...lel to the first one The LED stops flashing shortly after the electrolytic has been plugged in After a while the LED flashes again The reason is that the additional electrolytic first needed to be charged Fig 3 54 plug in an additional electrolytic underneath of the second electrolytic we find the series resistor of the flash LED in the lower part of the picture on the left side Fig 3 55 circuit d...

Страница 69: ...essing the switch and to connect the electrolytic directly to the generator Fig 3 56 circuit of the storage on the bread board b detail in the picture the diode with the cathode ring on the enclosing is turned to the left After sufficient time of charging slow down the fly wheel take of the belt and press the switch Now you bridge the diode The stored energy flows out of the electrolytic into the ...

Страница 70: ...hite LEDs instead of the orange LED You can disconnect the crocodile clips after a short charging period through the steam engine and generator Now both LEDs will shine for a while when you press the switch Then you can connect the bread board with the LED torch to the charging station steam engine again It is amazing how long the LEDs are shining with this charge regarding to the small storage ca...

Страница 71: ...71 Fig 3 59 Charging station LED with the steam engine model Fig 3 60 Assembly of the bread board with two parallel plugged in electrolytic 4700µF Schottkydiode switch two white LEDs and jumpers ...

Страница 72: ...iagram of the charging station Fig 3 62 disconnected LED torch in action One can create a lot more experiments with the Steam Box D 100E and with the E Box 50 I wish you a lot of fun and creativity D5 LED white D4 LED white ...

Страница 73: ...when the given voltage of an electric circuit is increased The power of current I is proportional to the given voltage The flowing current diminishes when the resistance is raised along with a constant voltage This process is used f ex in the alimentation of the LEDs with electricity The current I behaves opposite proportional to the resistance R With the following formularies you can work out the...

Страница 74: ... results R R1 x R2 R1 R2 Example Resistance R1 1 k Ohm parallel to the resistor R2 100 Ohm Calculated total resistance R 1 x 100 1 0 1 99 9 Ohm The total resistance becomes less Another example shows when two similar resistors of 1 k Ohm are parallel connected 1 x 1 1 1 0 5 k Ohm The total resistance is reduced to a half Fig 4 01 parallel circuits of resistors R total ...

Страница 75: ...4 1 4 Calculation of the power You can use the following formulary to calculate the electric power P U x I P electric power U voltage I current P is measured in Watt U in Volt and I in Ampere Example of a calculation A direct current generator generates a voltage of 3 0 Volt and provide a current output of 50mA 3 0V x 0 5mA has a power of 0 015Watt 4 2 Troubleshooting Here you find some tips and h...

Страница 76: ... figure to set the timing 4 2 2 The electronic Please pay attention to the following points when a circuit on the bread board does not function properly When nothing happens after mounting the circuit do not get nervous and prove the current coming from the generator Are all connections plugged in well Sometimes the connection cable of the generator is not properly connected to the crocodile clip ...

Страница 77: ...rces for spare parts and electronic parts Consumables see below and others and spare parts for steam engines are available through Wilesco distributors or www sell it easy de info sell it easy de Electronic parts are available for example with www conrad de 4 3 1 Consumables for steam engines Designation Content Item no Driving belt 260mm long Z80 1 package 5 spirals 00800 Dry spirit tablets Z81 1...

Страница 78: ...uns without enough water in the boiler In such cases the solder liquefy drop shaped and the boiler leaks This is an obvious proof that the boiler was fired without enough water Please watch always carefully the water level because the heating without enough water excludes any demand for warranty This Steam Engine is only designed for the above described function Technical data can be amended witho...

Страница 79: ... steam roller D365 The complete Wilesco range on stock Steam engine D21 Dry spirit tablets Z81 Sell it easy IH GmbH Schützenstraße 12 D 58511 Lüdenscheid Germany phone 49 2351 984780 fax 49 2351 984781 info sell it easy de www sell it easy de ...

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