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Carburetor Adjustments & Tuning Tips

JET NEEDLE

The jet needle controls fuel/air mixture over fully closed to 3/4 throttle. The

straight section affects throttle response at smaller throttle openings. By

changing the position of the clip in its groove, you can improve acceleration

at medium low and medium speed.

LEANER

RICHER

1st

2nd

3rd

4th

5th

6th

7th

SLOW JET AND AIR FUEL /
PILOT SCREW

The slow jet and pilot screw affects

fuel/air ratio over fully closed to 1/4

throttle. Adjust the pilot screw tot

obtain the best off-idle performance.

• If the engine blubbers (rich)

exiting a corner, turn the pilot screw

clockwise to lean the mixture.

• If the engine surges (lean) exiting

a corner, turn the pilot screw

counterclockwise to richen the

mixture.

The minimum to maximum range of

pilot screw adjustment is 1 to 1 3/4

turns out from the lightly seated position.

If you exceed 1 3/4 turns out, the next

larger slow jet is needed. If you are under

1 turns out, the next smaller slow jet is

needed.

Drain Screw

Содержание TSX-C 125SW

Страница 1: ...MANUAL 3598...

Страница 2: ...ith the motorcycle when it is resold Thumpstar reserves the right to make changes at any time without notice and without incurring any obligation This publication includes the latest production inform...

Страница 3: ...16 Operating Controls 17 Operation Component Locations 17 Fuel Valve 18 Choke Knob 19 Before Riding 20 Protective Gears 21 Is Your Motorcycle Ready 22 Pre Ride Inspection 23 Basic Operation Riding 25...

Страница 4: ...5 Suspension 68 Brakes 70 Wheels 73 Side Stand 77 Tires Tubes 78 Drive Chain 82 Appearance Care 86 Preparing for a Ride 88 Transporting your Thumpstar 89 Storing your Thumpstar 90 Troubleshooting 92 Y...

Страница 5: ...Valve Clearance 003 intake 005 exhaust Chain 428 x 114 Link Air Filter 125cc 38mm 140cc 42mm Handle Bar 1 inch x 770mm wide Wheel Bearings 15mm 6202 Swingarm Bearings 12mm 6201 Engine Mount Universal...

Страница 6: ...rect safety gear and safety procedures Warning Thumpstar is only recommend riding privately on closed course tracks by experienced riders and is not for general offroad recreational use before riding...

Страница 7: ...route cables and front brake hose before install ing fork Front brake hose 1 should be at front then throttle cable 2 clutch cable 3 last the kill switch wire 4 The longer front wheel 1 spacer will a...

Страница 8: ...mudguard and ensure step washer are installed correctly Fit foot pegs and use grease on foot peg pins Ensure the correct pressure in tires page 78 Loosen rear wheel adjust chain tension page 82 Workin...

Страница 9: ...rformance Engine break in Run bike at no more than three quarter throttle do not allow engine to rev to a high speed Engine break in should be no less than one hour After one hours carry out the follo...

Страница 10: ...s This section presents some of the most important information and recommendations to help you ride your motorcycle safely Please take a few moments to read these pages This section also includes a sp...

Страница 11: ...et that fits correctly Thumpstar strongly recommends the use of eye protection goggles and or face shield gloves boots long sleeved shirt or jacket and long pants Never consume alcohol or drugs before...

Страница 12: ...lowing water Wet brakes may have reduced operating ability Test your brakes after contact with water If necessary apply them several times to let friction dry out the linings Always use the correct si...

Страница 13: ...pe of petrochemicals Gasoline can catch fire and is toxic to life and the environment Thumpstar motorbikes recommend the following safety tips to avoid accidents injury death Always turn off the engin...

Страница 14: ...r bike the following list is an advisory guideline of the equipment that should be obtained before using your bike for the first time and to be used for every ride regardless of experience and skill l...

Страница 15: ...vide protection from abrasions and help to keep your hands from getting sore tired or cold Note that gloves may become slippery when wet and are not advisable for use FOOTWEAR CLOTHING Sturdy footwear...

Страница 16: ...e not the only factors Remember this model is designed for experienced riders only PHYSICAL ABILITY An important consideration that riders must be big enough to hold the motorcycle up get on and comfo...

Страница 17: ...dy to ride this motorcycle If you decide that you re ready to safely operate this motorcycle make sure you carefully read and understand the owner s manual before riding Also be sure that you have a h...

Страница 18: ...d load can seriously affect your motorcycle s handling braking and stability Adding accessories or making modifications that change this motorcycle s design and performance can also make it unsafe Als...

Страница 19: ...Thumpstar accessories Check with your dealer for assistance and always follow this guideline Make sure the accessory does not reduce ground clearance and lean angle limit suspension travel or steering...

Страница 20: ...you ride WARNING THIS BIKE IS A COMPETITION MODEL AND IS NOT MANUFACTURED FOR NOR SHOULD IT BE USED ON PUBLIC STREETS ROADS OR HIGHWAYS THE USE OF THIS BIKE SHOULD BE LIMITED TO PARTICIPATION IN SANC...

Страница 21: ...e basic controls on your motorcycle OPERATION COMPONENT LOCATIONS Throttle Grip Front Brake Lever Clutch Lever Kill Switch ENGINE STOP SWITCH The engine stop switch is used to turn the engine off duri...

Страница 22: ...ssing the lever means that the clutch plates are engaged while pulling the lever back towards the rider disengages the clutch plates through cable or hydraulic actuation allowing the rider to shift ge...

Страница 23: ...percentage of fuel in the fuel air mixture delivered to the engine ON Used to start a cold engine with air temperature below 35 C 95 F OFF Used for normal operation for restarting a warm engine or st...

Страница 24: ...perate all the necessary controls Before each ride we also suggest that you make sure you are in good mental physical condition are free of alcohol and drugs are wearing an approved motorcycle helmet...

Страница 25: ...helmet you buy Always wear a face shield or goggles to protect your eyes and help your vision ADDITIONAL PROTECTIVE GEAR In Addition to a helmet and eye protection we also recommend the following Stu...

Страница 26: ...on is a must because off road riding can be tough on a motorcycle and you don t want to have a breakdown far from help WARNING Improperly maintaining this motorcycle or failing to correct a problem be...

Страница 27: ...44 70 Engine Oil Check the level and add oil if needed page 46 Fuel Check the level and add fuel if needed Also make sure the fuel fill cap is securely fastened page 44 Drive Chain Check the conditio...

Страница 28: ...s shut automatically when it is released in all steering positions page 57 Brakes Squeeze the front brake lever and step on the rear brake pedal to check that the controls operate normally Adjust free...

Страница 29: ...afety This model is designed for experienced riders take time to become familiar with how this motorcycle works and handles Practice in a safe area until you build up your skills and get accustomed to...

Страница 30: ...t in NEUTRAL STARTING PROCEDURE To restart a warm engine follow the procedure for High Air Temperature on page 27 Normal Air Temperature 10 35 C 50 95 F 1 Push the choke knob up all the way to fully O...

Страница 31: ...ling is unstable open the throttle slightly High Air Temperature or to restart warm engine 35 C 95 F or above 1 Do not use the choke 2 Start the engine See step 2 under Normal Air Temperature Low Air...

Страница 32: ...after repeated attempts it may be flooded with excess fuel To clear a flooded engine Using The Kickstarter 1 Push the choke knob all the way down to OFF 2 Open the throttle fully 3 Crank the engine s...

Страница 33: ...4 When you attain a moderate speed close the throttle pull the clutch lever in and raise the shift lever After shifting realese clutch and apply the throttle 5 To continue shifting up to each higher...

Страница 34: ...before you feel the engine laboring lugging at low rpm NOTICE Downshifting can help slow your motorcycle especially on downhills However downshifting when engine rpm is too high can cause engine dama...

Страница 35: ...ght ahead until you regain control then reapply the brakes more gently Generally reduce your speed or complete braking before beginning a turn Avoid braking or closing the throttle quickly while turni...

Страница 36: ...ge Servicing Your Thumpstar Keeping your motorcycle well maintained is absolutely essential to your safety It s also a good way to protect your investment get maximum performance avoid breakdowns and...

Страница 37: ...g conditions More frequent service is needed if you subject your motorcycle to severe use such as competition or ride in unusually wet or dusty areas Frequent servicing of the air cleaner is especiall...

Страница 38: ...ions on how to perform some important maintenance tasks Some of the most important safety precautions follow However we cannot warn you of every conceivable hazard that can arise in performing mainten...

Страница 39: ...rom moving parts Do not run the engine unless instructed to do so Read the instructions before you begin and engine unless instructed to do so make sure you have the tools and skills required To help...

Страница 40: ...is schedule are provided in a service manual available for purchase from your dealer Because your motorcycle does not have an odometer service intervals in the maintenance schedules are expressed in t...

Страница 41: ...on X Air Filter 1 C Crankcase Breather X Spark Plug X Valve Clearance 4 X Engine Oil 3 X Engine Idle Speed X Drive Chain X L R Drive Chain Slider X Drive Chain Roller X Drive Sprocket X Driven Sprocke...

Страница 42: ...l skill 3 Replace after the first break in ride 4 Inspect after the first break in ride Perform the pre ride inspection at each scheduled maintenance period Each item on the maintenance schedule requi...

Страница 43: ...nd there are no leaks Check the braking mechanism works manually before riding Some brakes are adjustable for performance reasons brake adjustments are sensitive and in the interest of safety should o...

Страница 44: ...to your Bike SPARK PLUG Remove the coil lead from the spark plug Remove the spark plug with the correct tool Ensure the Gap at the contactors is 0 6 0 7mm Clean around the contactors where the spark...

Страница 45: ...st the engine id off and test each adjustment afterwards To adjust the Carburetor Support the motorcycle by means of the side stand Adjust the idling speed using the adjustment screw recommended r min...

Страница 46: ...hanic page 78 GENERAL CLEANLINESS The cleaning of your motorcycle can prolong the life of many component parts such as plastics brakes and frame etc Jet washing can cause damage to certain components...

Страница 47: ...Up G G G G G Ground Green Wire White Black Black Yellow Ignition Coil Black White Black Red White Yellow Spark Plug Blue White Green Black Yellow Black Red White Black Stator Lighting Coil Ignition C...

Страница 48: ...ine speed under normal load change brands of gasoline If pinging or spark knock persists consult your Certified Motorcycle Mechanic Use only unleaded fuel in your Thumpstar If you ride your Thumpstar...

Страница 49: ...terclockwise and remove it 2 Add fuel until the level reaches the bottom of the filler neck Avoid overfilling the tank There should be no fuel in the filler neck 3 After refueling turn the fuel fill c...

Страница 50: ...weight SAE 10W 30 10W 40 JASO T 903 standard MA suggested oil 4 stroke oil or an equivalent motorcycle oil For normal air temperatures See next page for additional temperature viscosity Information Su...

Страница 51: ...is within the indicated range JASO T 903 standard The JASO T 903 standard is an index for engine oils for 4 stroke motorcycle engines There are two classes MA and MB Oil conforming to the standard is...

Страница 52: ...the motorcycle upright 6 Insert the oil fill cap dipstick until it seats but do not screw it in 7 Remove the oil fill cap dipstick and check the oil level If the oil is at or near the upper level mar...

Страница 53: ...oil 7 Pour the drained oil into a suitable container and dispose of it in an approved manner 8 Remove the old sealing washer and install a new sealing washer on the drain bolt 9 Install the oil drain...

Страница 54: ...specific modifications to the carburetor If you always operate your engine at altitudes above 6 500 feet 2 000 meters have your servicing dealer perform this carburetor modification This engine when...

Страница 55: ...e over a given portion of throttle valve opening These circuits overlap as show below MAIN JET The main jet affects fuel air ratio from half 1 2 to full throttle 4 4 The size should be reduced at high...

Страница 56: ...jet and pilot screw affects fuel air ratio over fully closed to 1 4 throttle Adjust the pilot screw tot obtain the best off idle performance If the engine blubbers rich exiting a corner turn the pilo...

Страница 57: ...ettings Pilot Air Fuel Screw Opening 1 3 4 Turns Out Slow Pilot Jet 20 Needle Clip Position 3rd Groove Main jet 110 Adjustment TSX C 140 BW VM26 Standard Settings Pilot Air Fuel Screw Opening 1 3 4 Tu...

Страница 58: ...should not be necessary to go more than one jet size richer or leaner to fine tune your Thumpstar If larger jetting changes are necessary check for air leaks blocked or restricted exhaust or fuel syst...

Страница 59: ...the correct service interval for your riding conditions Your motorcycle s air cleaner has very specific performance requirements Use a new Thumpstar Genuine air cleaner specified for your model or an...

Страница 60: ...r tears or cracks in the foam orseams of the air cleaner Re place the aircleaner if it is damaged 5 Allow the air cleaner to dry thoroughly before applying oil A wet air cleaner will not fully absorb...

Страница 61: ...2 Loosen the upper lock nut on the throttle cable mechanism 3 Turn the upper adjuster 4 Tighten the lock nut Return the dust coverto its normal position 5 After adjustment check for smooth rotationof...

Страница 62: ...s or removing the carburetor It is also used if you can not get the proper adjustment with the upper adjuster 1 Loosen the locking nut 2 Turn the second adjuster 3 Tighten the locking nut Maintenance...

Страница 63: ...there is a problem see your Certified Motorcycle Mechanic 3 Inspect the condition of the throttle cables from the throttle grip down to the carburetor If the cable is kinked or chafed have it replace...

Страница 64: ...tch wear UPPER ADJUSTMENT Minor adjustments are generally made with the upper clutch cable adjuster 1 Loosen the upper lock nut 2 Turn the upper clutch cable adjuster to obtain the specified freeplay...

Страница 65: ...Hold the lower adjusting nut and loosen the lower lock nut at the lower end of the cable 4 Turn the lower adjusting nut to obtain the specified freeplay 5 Hold the lower adjusting nut and tighten the...

Страница 66: ...Rotate the generator flywheel counterclockwise until the T mark on the flywheel lines up with the index mark on the left crankcase cover In this position the piston may either be on the compression o...

Страница 67: ...lock nut while holding the adjusting screw to prevent it from turning Finally recheck the clearance to make sure that the adjustment has not been disturbed 7 Check that the mount rubbers in good condi...

Страница 68: ...s sufficient Do not attempt to compensate for faults in other systems by adjusting idle speed See your Certified Motorcycle Mechanic for regularly schedule carburetor adjustments 1 Warm up the engine...

Страница 69: ...e recommended heat range NOTICE Using spark plugs with an improper heat range can cause engine damage 1 Clean any dirt from around the spark plug base 2 Disconnect the spark plug cap 3 Remove the spar...

Страница 70: ...1 6 turn after it seats If installing a new plug tighten it twice to prevent loosening a First tighten the plug NGK 1 4 turn after it seats b Then loosen the plug c Next tighten the plug again 1 6 tur...

Страница 71: ...ir leaks in the inlet tract or exhaust system the passage of too much air because of the use of the wrong air cleaner use of a less restrictive aftermarket exhaust system or a hole or holes deliberate...

Страница 72: ...d to determine whether or not replacement parts or repairs are needed FRONT SUSPENSION INSPECTION 1 Check fork operation Pull the front brake lever in to lock the brake Then pump up and down on the fo...

Страница 73: ...lay which indicates worn swingarm bushings 2 Check that the fasteners for the shock absorber attachment points are secure 3 Check for oil leaks in the shock absorber If any rear suspension com ponents...

Страница 74: ...feel within the normal range while riding check the brake pads If they are not worn beyond the recommended limit there is probably air in the brake system See your Certified Motorcycle Mechanic dealer...

Страница 75: ...the pads at each regular maintenance interval Check the cutout in each pad If either pad is worn to the cutout replace both pads as a set See your Certified Motorcycle Mechanic for this ser vice Chec...

Страница 76: ...ay by slowly depressing the brake pedal until the brake starts to engage REAR BRAKE PEDAL HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT 1 Loosen lock nut to adjust brake pedal to make it more tight or loose 2 Loosen cam bolt and...

Страница 77: ...recommended service in the Maintenance Schedule However information for wheel re moval is provided for emergency situations WHEEL RIMS SPOKES 1 Inspect the wheel rims and spokes for damage 2 Tighten...

Страница 78: ...3 Unscrew and remove the front axle shaft 4 Remove the wheel and side collars spacers Avoid depressing the brake lever when the wheel is off the motorcycle This will force the caliper pistons out of...

Страница 79: ...ump the fork several times 5 Install split pin cotter pin 6 After installing the wheel apply the brake several times and then check if the wheel rotates freely Recheck the wheel if the brake drags or...

Страница 80: ...shaft 4 Turn both chain adjusters so the rear wheel can be moved all the way forward for maximum drive chain slack 5 Unscrew the rear axle nut Pull the rear axle shaft out Push the wheel forward and...

Страница 81: ...Repeat this procedure several times If a torque wrench was not used to install the wheel see your Certified Motorcycle Mechanic dealer as soon as possible to verify proper assembly Improper assembly m...

Страница 82: ...ing tread life and riding comfort Generally underinflated tires wear unevenly adversely affect handling and are more likely to fail from being overheated Underinflated tires can also cause wheel damag...

Страница 83: ...ch the recommended cold pressures the tires will be underinflated The correct cold tire pressures are Front 20 psi 138 kPa 1 4 kgf cm Rear 20 psi 138 kPa 1 4 kgf cm If you decide to adjust tire pressu...

Страница 84: ...Check the position of both valve stems A tilted valve stem indicates the tube is slipping inside the tire or the tire is slipping on the rim See your Certified Motorcycle Mechanic TUBE REPLACEMENT If...

Страница 85: ...a replacement tire equivalent to the original Replace the tube any time you replace a tire The old tube will probably be stretched and if installed in a new tire could fail Have the wheel balanced aft...

Страница 86: ...ansmission is in neutral It is not necessary to remove or replace the drive chain to perform the rec ommended service in the Maintenance Schedule INSPECTION 1 Check slack in the lower drive chain run...

Страница 87: ...ain slider 5 Replace the drive chain if chain slack is excessive when the rear axle is moved to the farthest limit of adjustment Excessive slack indicates the chain is worn beyond its service limit To...

Страница 88: ...th the adjuster block on both sides of the swingarm 5 Torque the rear axle nut to 47 lbf ft 64 N m 6 5 kgf m 6 Recheck drive chain slack 7 Check rear brake pedal freeplay and adjust as necessary Freep...

Страница 89: ...the drive chain if it has damaged rollers loose fitting links or otherwise appears unserviceable Replacement chain 428 Chain and heavy duty 3 Inspect the sprocket teeth for wear or damage We recommen...

Страница 90: ...degreaser and water Avoid products that contain harsh detergents or chemical solvents that could damage the metal paint and plastic on your motorcycle If your motorcycle is still warm from recent oper...

Страница 91: ...s 6 Lubricate the drive chain to prevent rusting 7 Start the engine and let it idle for several minutes The engine heat will help dry moist areas 8 As a precaution ride at a slow speed and apply the b...

Страница 92: ...Canada only riding clubs and off road magazines are good sources of information WHAT TO TAKE TO THE RIDING AREA Along with your motorcycle and riding gear you should take along some tools and supplies...

Страница 93: ...r trailer rail Attach the lower ends of two straps to the tie down hooks on your motorcycle Attach the upper ends of the straps to the handlebar one on the right side the other on the left close to th...

Страница 94: ...ard STORING YOUR THUMPSTAR MOTORCYCLE If you won t be riding for an extended period such as during the winter thoroughly inspect your motorcycle and correct any problem before stor ing it That way nee...

Страница 95: ...ature variation 10 Cover your motorcycle with a porous material Avoid using plastic or similar nonbreathing coated materials that restrict air flow and allow heat and moisture to accumulate REMOVAL FR...

Страница 96: ...le using this Manual are followed by the page number reference in parenthesis The items that require use of the Thumpstar Manual are followed by an asterisk POOR PERFORMANCE AT LOW AND UNSTABLE IDLE S...

Страница 97: ...93 POOR PERFORMANCE AT LOW AND UNSTABLE IDLE SPEED CHECK POSSIBLE CAUSES Troubleshooting...

Страница 98: ...94 Troubleshooting BLOCKED NOT BLOCKED...

Страница 99: ...dmay be illegal Choose Sensible Cleaners Use a biodegradable detergent when you wash your motorcycle Avoid aerosol spray cleaners that contain chlorofluoro carbons CFCs which damage the atmosphere s p...

Страница 100: ...cide what to do If a problem is relatively minor and you have the tools supplies and skills to make a permanent repair you may be able to fix it on the trail and con tinue riding Or you may be able to...

Страница 101: ...ic sooty exhaust rich fuel mixture See or talk to your Thumpstar Certified Motorcycle Mechanic detonates or pings under load If applicable switch to the recommended octane gasoline or change your bran...

Страница 102: ...hold the tube must be replaced The tire will also need to be replaced if it is damaged Replacing a tube or tire involves removing and re installing the wheel If you are unable to repair a flat tire on...

Страница 103: ...you get home thoroughly check your motorcycle and correct any problems you find Also be sure to have your Certified Motorcycle Mechanic check the frame and suspension after any serious crash IF A COM...

Страница 104: ...ment Engine size of your Thumpstar Version No To identify which version your model is Thumpstar models are categorized by version number rather than by model year so to find the correct OEM parts you...

Страница 105: ...er the name Gasohol MTBE Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether 15 by Volume You may use gasoline containing up to 15 MTBE by volume METHANOL methyl or wood alcohol 5 by Volume You may use gasoline containing me...

Страница 106: ...pension Rear Mono shock Length 310mm Brakes Front Disc HSK Dual Piston Brakes Rear Disc HSK Single Piston Wheel Tyre Front Alloy Rim 70 100 14 Wheel Tyre Rear AK 7 Alloy Rim w Rim Lock 80 100 12 Wheel...

Страница 107: ...ork Suspension Rear Mono shock 310mm Brakes Front Disc HSK Dual Piston Brakes Rear Disc HSK Single Piston Wheel Tyre Front Alloy Rim 70 100 17 Wheel Tyre Rear Ak 7 Alloy Rim 70 100 14 Wheelbase 1260mm...

Страница 108: ...104 Spare Part Catalogue Model Version SW VR 1 2 BW VR 2 2...

Страница 109: ...105 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 110: ...106 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 111: ...107 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 112: ...108 Spare Part Catalogue SUBFRAME...

Страница 113: ...109 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 114: ...110 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 115: ...111 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 116: ...112 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 117: ...113 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 118: ...114 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 119: ...115 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 120: ...116 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 121: ...117 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 122: ...118 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 123: ...119 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 124: ...120 Spare Part Catalogue...

Страница 125: ...121 Torque Settings USE BLUE MEDIUM STRENGTH THREAD LOCK GLUE NOTE Put glue on tip of the bolt for glue to work correctly Places to use Thread Lock Glue...

Страница 126: ...122 Torque Settings 1 2 3 4 5 14 6 7 8 9 15 16 10 17 11 12 12 13...

Страница 127: ...xle pinch bolts 15 20 2 0 8 Rear axle nut 94 128 13 1 9 Chain adjuster lock nuts 20 27 2 8 10 Mid engine hanger bracket nut 47 64 6 5 11 Upper engine hanger plate nuts engine side 40 54 5 5 frame side...

Страница 128: ...124 18 22 23 35 24 27 28 29 30 31 20 21 19 32 33 34 25 26 Torque Settings...

Страница 129: ...bolt 51 69 7 0 28 Fork protector bolts 5 2 7 0 7 29 Muffler mounting bolts right 19 26 2 7 left 19 26 2 7 30 Exhaust joint pipe mounting bolt 19 26 2 7 31 Exhaust joint pipe clamp bolt 15 21 2 1 32 D...

Страница 130: ...s www thumpstar com au https www thumpstar co nz Go to our website then copy the part number or ERP CODE in our Spare Part Catalogue and paste it in the search bar then press enter or click the search...

Страница 131: ...ery Purchasing a motorcycle in the crate without setup by a Thumpstar Autho rized Dealer void the limited warranty Limited Warranty is not transferable and if valid for original purchaser only USA Com...

Страница 132: ...y of this bike for any specific purpose or user The products in this manual are designed for competition use for a single rider with proper safety equipment Thumpstar also recommends that any minors o...

Страница 133: ...efore riding check your local states cities motorcycle codes for more information regarding laws This product is for use on closed private tracks only By purchasing you acknowledge that you have read...

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