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E-DOC-CTC-20051017-0137 v2.0

Chapter 5

Troubleshooting

5 Troubleshooting

Introduction

This chapter suggest solutions for problems you may encounter while installing or
configuring y our SpeedTouch™.

If the suggestions do not resolve the problem, look at the support pages on

http://

www.speedtouch.com/support

or contact your service provider.

For Internet connection troubleshooting, refer to the provided Installation and
Setup Guide.

Topics

In this chapter:

General SpeedTouch™ Troubleshooting

UPnP™ on Windows XP Systems

Reset to Factory Defaults

Содержание 510v5

Страница 1: ...SpeedTouch 510v5 v6 Residential ADSL Gateway User s Guide P o w e r D S L E th e rn e t In te rn e t ...

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Страница 3: ...SpeedTouch 510v5 v6 User s Guide ...

Страница 4: ...i and the Wi Fi logo are registered trademarks of the Wi Fi Alliance Wi Fi CERTIFIED Wi Fi ZONE Wi Fi Alli ance their respective logos and Wi Fi Protected Access are trademarks of the Wi Fi Alliance UPnP is a certification mark of the UPnP Implementers Corporation Microsoft MS DOS Windows and Windows NT are either registered trademarks or trademarks of Microsoft Corpo ration in the United States a...

Страница 5: ... via the Web Interface 6 1 2 2 Access via CLI 7 1 2 3 Access via FTP 9 1 2 4 Remote Assistance 12 2 Local Network Setup 13 3 Internet Connectivity Dial In Clients 15 3 1 SpeedTouch Web Pages 17 3 2 Internet Gateway Device Control Agent 19 4 SpeedTouch Web Interface 21 4 1 Navigation 22 4 1 1 Menu 23 4 1 2 Language Bar 24 4 1 3 Navigation Bar 25 4 1 4 Notification Area 26 4 1 5 Tasks 27 ...

Страница 6: ...4 4 4 Internet Service Settings 41 4 5 Toolbox 42 4 5 1 Remote Assistance 43 4 5 2 Game Application Sharing 44 4 5 3 Defined Games Applications 46 4 5 4 Game or Application Definition 47 4 5 5 New Game or Application 48 4 5 6 Content Level 49 4 5 7 Firewall 50 4 5 8 Dynamic DNS 53 4 5 9 User Management 54 4 5 10 Edit User 56 4 5 11 Change Default User 57 4 5 12 Add User 58 4 6 Home Network 59 4 6 ...

Страница 7: ...Contents E DOC CTC 20051017 0137 v2 0 iii 5 1 General SpeedTouch Troubleshooting 70 5 1 1 Ethernet Troubleshooting 71 5 2 UPnP on Windows XP Systems 72 5 3 Reset to Factory Defaults 74 ...

Страница 8: ...Contents E DOC CTC 20051017 0137 v2 0 iv ...

Страница 9: ...lops new solutions but is also committed to improve its existing products For suggestions regarding this document please contact documentation speedtouch thomson net For more information on THOMSON s latest technological innovations documents and software releases visit us at www speedtouch com A note provides additional information about a topic A tip provides an alternative method or shortcut to...

Страница 10: ...About this User s Guide 2 E DOC CTC 20051017 0137 v2 0 ...

Страница 11: ...et at high speed Installation For more information on how to set up install and wire your SpeedTouch and set up Internet connection refer to the Installation and Setup Guide Configuration This User s Guide will help you configuring your SpeedTouch Before you begin Before connecting the SpeedTouch please read the SpeedTouch Quick Installation Guide and the Safety Instructions and Regulatory Notices...

Страница 12: ...Green Solid on Power on normal operation Red Solid on Power on self test failed indicating device malfunction Orange Solid on Bootloader active Off Power off Ethernet Green Blinking Ethernet activity Solid on Ethernet connection no activity Off No Ethernet connection DSL Green Blinking Pending DSL line synchronisation Solid on DSL line synchronised Off No DSL line Internet Green Blinking Internet ...

Страница 13: ...or more information see 1 2 1 Access via the Web Interface on page 6 Command Line Interface CLI Fine tune your SpeedTouch configuration For more information see 1 2 2 Access via CLI on page 7 File Transfer Protocol FTP Back up and restore data on your SpeedTouch For more information see 1 2 3 Access via FTP on page 9 Remote Assistance Allow a remote user to help you configuring your SpeedTouch For...

Страница 14: ...e http speedtouch lan or 192 168 1 254 by default The SpeedTouch Home page appears from where you can navigate to all the configurable aspects of the SpeedTouch For more information on the Web pages see 4 SpeedTouch Web Interface on page 21 You can access the pages via HTTP In case of remote assistance simply provide your ISP with the link as shown user name and password before he can log on to th...

Страница 15: ...nterface CLI via A Telnet session This requires a TCP IP connection between the host from which the Telnet session is opened and the SpeedTouch Your SpeedTouch and the connected computer must have an IP address in the same subnet Quote site commands over FTP For more information see Quote site command on page 11 For more information on CLI commands see the SpeedTouch CLI Reference Guide ...

Страница 16: ...ndow In Microsoft Windows XP for instance 1 On the Windows taskbar click Start 2 Select All Programs Accessories Command Prompt In the Command Prompt window At the prompt type telnet followed by the IP address of your SpeedTouch 192 168 1 254 by default The default user is Administrator and the default password is blank Username Administrator ______ SpeedTouch ___ _____ Version X X _____ __ _ ____...

Страница 17: ...the IP address of your SpeedTouch 192 168 1 254 by default 3 Enter your SpeedTouch security user name and password The example below shows an FTP session to the SpeedTouch file system File system structure The structure of the file system is very simple it consists of a single root directory called root and a subdirectory called dl download The root directory contains all the necessary files for t...

Страница 18: ...root NO read write dl read write Use the command to cd access another directory than the one currently open Example ftp cd dl dir list the directory files Example ftp dir bin set the transfer mode to binary hash turn on the hashing option put upload files Example ftp put C MyBackupFiles user ini A configuration file must be uploaded to the dl directory get download files Example ftp get user ini D...

Страница 19: ...le transfer At the ftp prompt type hash and press ENTER home doejohn 1 ftp 192 168 1 254 Connected to 192 168 1 254 220 Inactivity timer 120 seconds Use site idle secs to change Name 192 168 1 254 doejohn 331 SpeedTouch 00 90 D0 01 02 03 User doejohn OK Password requir ed Password 330 OK ftp ftp bin 200 TYPE is now 8 bit binary ftp ftp hash 200Hash mark printing on 8192 bytes hash mark ftp cd dl 2...

Страница 20: ...ect Toolbox Remote Assistance 3 Click Enable Remote Assistance 4 Provide the following parameters to your help desk URL the HTTP link User name Password Your ISP is now able to access your SpeedTouch via the HTTP link in combination with the provided certificate a secure authentication mechanism To disable remote access Proceed as follows 1 Go to the SpeedTouch pages as described in 1 2 1 Access v...

Страница 21: ...e provided to wire your computer s Ethernet port to the SpeedTouch s Ethernet port The Ethernet cable can also be used to wire the Ethernet port of your SpeedTouch to an external hub or switch Device settings Once you have connected a device you can personalise its settings For more information see Configure on page 62 In the SpeedTouch package a yellow full wired straight through RJ 45 RJ 45 Ethe...

Страница 22: ...14 E DOC CTC 20051017 0137 v2 0 Chapter 2 Local Network Setup ...

Страница 23: ...packet services with embedded PPP client Connection protocols The applied connection protocol model depends on the service profile you selected to configure the SpeedTouch and should correspond with the Service Provider s requirements If for instance your ISP provides PPPoE you should configure PPPoE You can find more information on connection protocols in the Internet Connection Configuration Gui...

Страница 24: ...roadband PPPoE dial in application The PPP over Ethernet connection scenario provides PPP like dial in behaviour over the virtual Ethernet segment To be able to use a broadband dial in application on your computer for connecting to the Internet the SpeedTouch needs to be configured for Bridged Ethernet or Routed PPPoE with PPPoE relay via the SpeedTouch Home Install Wizard on the Setup CD or the e...

Страница 25: ...sion 1 Open a Web browser on your computer and browse to the SpeedTouch Web pages see 1 2 1 Access via the Web Interface on page 6 for more information The SpeedTouch home page appears by default 2 Click Connect at the appropriate broadband connection The SpeedTouch embedded PPP dial in client establishes the Internet connection 3 Browse the Web Monitoring your Internet connection You can view and...

Страница 26: ... session Proceed as follows to close an active PPP connection 1 Go to the SpeedTouch Web pages 2 Click Disconnect at the appropriate broadband connection The SpeedTouch embedded PPP dial in client closes the Internet connection The Internet Link status changes to Disconnected and your computer is offline ...

Страница 27: ...on page 73 UPnP is enabled on your SpeedTouch To enable UPnP see 4 5 2 Game Application Sharing on page 44 Starting an Internet session Proceed as follows to start an Internet session 1 In the Windows taskbar click Start 2 Select Settings Control Panel The Control Panel window appears 3 Go to Network and Internet Connections Network Connections The Network Connections window appears You will find ...

Страница 28: ... an Internet session 1 In the Windows taskbar click Start 2 Select Settings Control Panel Network and Internet Connections Network Connections 3 In the Network Connections window right click the Internet Connection icon and select Disconnect to close the session 4 The SpeedTouch embedded PPP dial in client will close the Internet connection The Internet Gateway icon displays Disconnected and your ...

Страница 29: ...erface to the software installed on the device It allows easy setup and management of the SpeedTouch via your Web browser from any PC connected to the SpeedTouch See 1 2 1 Access via the Web Interface on page 6 to access the pages SpeedTouch documentation Consult The SpeedTouch Installation and Setup Guide for more information on setup and installation procedures ...

Страница 30: ... SpeedTouch Web Interface 4 1 Navigation Navigation components The SpeedTouch Web interface consists of the following components Menu Language Bar Navigation Bar Notification Area Tasks Menu Tasks Navigation bar Notification area Language bar ...

Страница 31: ...rovides basic information on the SpeedTouch Broadband Connection Allows you to view configure your broadband connections Toolbox Allows you to assign games or applications to a device and secure your Internet connection Home Network Allows you to manage your local network Collapsing and expanding the menu You can collapse expand the menu by clicking the arrow located at the top of the menu ...

Страница 32: ...ouch Web Interface 4 1 2 Language Bar Language bar The language bar is located under the SpeedTouch logo and allows you to change the language of the SpeedTouch Web interface The language bar will only be shown if more than one language is available ...

Страница 33: ...change your password or switch to another user View the current position on the SpeedTouch Web interface Get context related Help information Display level Depending on the page you are viewing the following buttons will be available Overview to view a summary of the current status or configuration Details to view more detailed information on the current status or configuration Configure to change...

Страница 34: ...tion area The notification area is located under the Navigation Bar and is used to display Error messages indicated by a red traffic light Warnings indicated by an orange traffic light Information indicated by a green traffic light If none of these events occur the notification area will not be shown ...

Страница 35: ...peedTouch Web Interface 4 1 5 Tasks Tasks To allow a quick configuration of your SpeedTouch some pages may offer you a number of related tasks in the Pick a task list These tasks will guide you to the page where you can perform the selected task ...

Страница 36: ...7 v2 0 Chapter 4 SpeedTouch Web Interface 4 2 Home SpeedTouch home page The SpeedTouch home page gives you a short overview of all the configurable aspects of the SpeedTouch SpeedTouch Broadband Connection Toolbox Home Network ...

Страница 37: ...Interface 4 3 SpeedTouch The SpeedTouch menu The SpeedTouch menu consists of the following items Information Configuration Event Logs The SpeedTouch page The SpeedTouch page gives you some basic information on the SpeedTouch Product Information Configuration ...

Страница 38: ...0051017 0137 v2 0 Chapter 4 SpeedTouch Web Interface 4 3 1 Information Information The Information page summarizes important information on your SpeedTouch You may need this information when you contact your helpdesk ...

Страница 39: ...sy Setup Wizard helps you to configure your SpeedTouch Internet connection Proceed as follows to configure the SpeedTouch using the SpeedTouch Easy Setup wizard 1 In the left menu click SpeedTouch 2 In the Pick a task list click Set up The Easy Setup wizard will now guide you through the configuration of your SpeedTouch ...

Страница 40: ...ce 4 3 3 Restart Restarting your SpeedTouch Proceed as follows 1 In the left menu click SpeedTouch 2 In the Pick a task list click Restart The following message appears 3 Click Yes restart my SpeedTouch The SpeedTouch restarts The SpeedTouch returns to the Home page ...

Страница 41: ...your SpeedTouch Click Configuration Wizard under Service Configuration For more information see 4 3 2 SpeedTouch Easy Setup on page 31 Configure the time settings of your SpeedTouch Select Auto configuration if you want the SpeedTouch to use a time server to synchronise its clock to a dedicated time server Clear Auto configuration to manually configure the SpeedTouch time settings Disable Web brow...

Страница 42: ...igure 3 In the Pick a task list click Save or Restore Configuration Saving your current configuration Proceed as follows 1 Click Back up Configuration Now 2 Click Save 3 Choose a location to save your backup file and click Save Restoring a previously saved configuration Proceed as follows 1 Click Browse 2 Select the configuration file you want to restore and click Open 3 Click Restore Configuratio...

Страница 43: ...initial configuration of your SpeedTouch All your changes will be deleted The following message appears Resetting the SpeedTouch factory defaults Proceed as follows 1 In the left menu click SpeedTouch 2 In the Pick a task list click Return to Factory Default Settings 3 Click Yes reset my SpeedTouch If you reset your SpeedTouch to factory default settings all active connections will be disconnected...

Страница 44: ...overview of the last event logs that have been recorded since the SpeedTouch was turned on The first column of the table indicates the importance of the event log Category The Category list allows you to filter the events shown in the Recorded Events table For example by clicking Security you can view all security related events for example generated by the SpeedTouch firewall Indicator Descriptio...

Страница 45: ...menu items DSL Connection Internet Services The Broadband Connection page The Broadband Connection page gives you a short status overview of the connections configured on the SpeedTouch Click View more to see more information on the selected broadband connection If you configured a dial up connection you can establish terminate the connection by clicking Connect Disconnect ...

Страница 46: ...Proceed as follows 1 In the left menu click Broadband Connection 2 In the Pick a task list click Check connectivity to the Internet 3 In the Internet Service to Check list click the Internet service that you want to check 4 Click Check Connectivity The SpeedTouch lists the test results in the Test Results list Analysing the test results If the test is successful you will get a list of green check ...

Страница 47: ...17 0137 v2 0 Chapter 4 SpeedTouch Web Interface 4 4 2 DSL Connection Overview Click Overview to view basic information on your DSL connection Details Click Details to view more detailed information on your DSL connection ...

Страница 48: ...rmation The Internet Services page displays information on your Internet Connection s To view more detailed information on a specific connection click the View more link of the corresponding connection If you configured a dial up connection you can establish terminate the connection by clicking Connect Disconnect ...

Страница 49: ...link of the Internet service you want to view Overview The Overview page gives you basic information on the selected Internet Service Details The Details page gives you more detailed information on the selected Internet Service If you configured a connection you can establish terminate the connection by clicking Connect Disconnect If you configured a dial up connection you can establish terminate ...

Страница 50: ...nd games that you run in your private network towards the Internet Firewall Allows you to configure the security level of the SpeedTouch firewall Dynamic DNS Allows you to assign a DNS host name to your broadband connection s User Management Allows you to manage the users configured on your SpeedTouch The Toolbox page The Toolbox page gives you an overview of the available services and their curre...

Страница 51: ...x 2 Click Enable Remote Assistance 3 Pass the information listed under URL Username Password to your technical support in order for them to be able to access your SpeedTouch Terminating remote assistance The remote assistance session ends if the technical support disables remote assistance after 20 minutes of inactivity after restarting your SpeedTouch If you want to enable remote assistance you m...

Страница 52: ...t the need for extra and manual configuration For security reasons you are able to configure the UPnP policy towards Windows XP and UPnP aware applications and Operating Systems In case you select the Use Extended Security check box only limited UPnP operation between a host running MS Windows XP and the SpeedTouch is allowed A local host is NOT allowed to connect disconnect the SpeedTouch Interne...

Страница 53: ...45 E DOC CTC 20051017 0137 v2 0 Chapter 4 SpeedTouch Web Interface Assign a game or application to a specific network device ...

Страница 54: ...e or application The Defined Games Applications page This page gives you an overview of the games and applications defined on your SpeedTouch Each game or application can be assigned to a device on your local network If you want to View the translation rules of a game or application click the name of the rule Change the translation rules of a game or application click the Edit link of the game or ...

Страница 55: ...d using an outgoing trigger Configure Under Game or Application Name you can Change the name of the game or application Game or Application Definition you can Change the TCP UDP port definition for this game or application Adding a Port Translation rule Proceed as follows 1 Click the Edit link of the TCP UDP port definition of the game or application 2 In the Protocol list click the protocol the g...

Страница 56: ... Type the name of the game or application in the Name box 4 Click Clone Existing Game or Application if you want to start from the port mappings of the selected game or application Manual Entry of Port Maps if you want to manually configure the port mapping for this game or application The SpeedTouch creates the game or application and takes you to the Game or Application Definition page to config...

Страница 57: ...content level you want to edit Overview The Content Level page gives you an overview of the different categories and their rules The following icons indicate whether the content type is allowed or not Configure This page allows you to change The content level name The content level description The content level configuration Icon Description The category group is allowed The category group is not ...

Страница 58: ...tandard All outgoing connections are allowed All incoming connections are blocked except for inbound connections assigned to a local host via Game and Application Sharing Disabled All in and outgoing traffic is allowed to pass through your SpeedTouch including Game and Application Sharing This is the default firewall level Although BlockAll should block all connections some mandatory types of traf...

Страница 59: ...n the Name box type a name for the new security level 5 Choose an existing security level to clone from 6 Click Apply Editing a security level Proceed as follows 1 In the Toolbox menu click Firewall 2 In the upper right corner click Configure 3 Select a security level and then click the Edit link The firewall settings of the selected security level appear 4 You can Select a row using the Edit link...

Страница 60: ...ouch Web Interface 6 Select an Action that should be done on traffic for which the security rules applies Accept to allow the traffic to pass Deny to drop the traffic without notification Count to let the traffic pass but count it Hits 7 Click Apply ...

Страница 61: ...re On the Configure page you can assign a Dynamic DNS host name to a broadband connection Proceed as follows 1 Create an account at the Dynamic DNS service of your choice for example www dyndns org www no ip com www dtdns com 2 On the Dynamic DNS page click Configure 3 Select the Enabled check box 4 If necessary click the broadband connection to which you want to assign the Dynamic DNS hostname in...

Страница 62: ...nd their privileges User Privileges root This is the root master account This user has all privileges without any exceptions or limitations SuperUser This user can perform any service via any access channel from any access origin TechnicalSupport This user can perform any service via any access channel from WAN origin only Administrator This user can perform any service via any access channel from...

Страница 63: ... This user can perform only WAN related configurations via any access channel from any origin User This user has access to the GUI Overview pages remote assistance via HTTP or HTTPS access channel from LAN origin only Guest This user does not have any privileges User Privileges ...

Страница 64: ...l User Data click the name of the user you want to edit The Edit User page appears On this page you can Click Reset Password to reset the password of the selected user to the user name So if you reset the password of John his password will be John Change the administration rights of the selected user You can not change the administration rights of the account you are logged on with ...

Страница 65: ...on with this account Changing the default user Proceed as follows 1 In the Toolbox menu click User Management 2 In the Pick a task list click Set the default user 3 The Change Default User page appears 4 In the User Name list click the name of the new default user 5 Click Change Default User to confirm your choice To allow users to automatically log on under this account this default user account ...

Страница 66: ... User page appears 4 Under User definition you can configure The name of the new user The administration rights of the new user The password of the new user will be equal to the user name for example if the user name is John Doe the password will be John Doe Also when resetting a user the password will be changed into the user name You can only add users with less than or equal administration righ...

Страница 67: ...igure the devices detected on your local network Interfaces Allows you to view configure the interfaces that are available on the SpeedTouch The Home Network page The Home Network page gives you an overview of your SpeedTouch network Viewing client information If you click on a client you can View the client s network settings Configure the client s network settings by clicking Configure ...

Страница 68: ...view of the devices that are currently connected to the SpeedTouch network If you want to Get more information on a specific device click on the name of the device See 4 6 2 Device Settings on page 61 for more information Edit a device from the Detected Device s list click Edit Delete a device from the Detected Device s list click Delete The detected device dsldevice is the SpeedTouch itself Once ...

Страница 69: ...ich the device is currently connected Addressing allows you to view Physical Address shows the MAC address of the device IP Address Assignment shows whether the device is using a static or dynamic IP address IP Address shows the current IP address of the device Always use the same address indicates whether the wireless client has a static DHCP lease or not DHCP Lease Time displays the time for whi...

Страница 70: ...CTC 20051017 0137 v2 0 Chapter 4 SpeedTouch Web Interface Configure The Configure page allows you to Change the device information Allow a game or service running on this device to be initiated from the Internet ...

Страница 71: ...the Home Network menu click Devices 2 In the Pick a task list click Assign the public IP address of a connection to a device 3 Click the Edit link of your Internet connection 4 In the Device list select the device you want to assign the public address to 5 Click Apply The SpeedTouch prompts you to make some adjustments as a result of the new configuration 6 Click OK 7 Release and renew the IP addr...

Страница 72: ...b Interface 4 6 4 Interfaces Interfaces overview The Interfaces page gives you an overview of the interfaces used on your SpeedTouch If you want to know more about the network settings of a specific interface click the name of the interface you want to view ...

Страница 73: ...ol settings Assigning a new IP address to the SpeedTouch Under IP Addresses proceed as follows 1 Type the IP address of your choice for example 192 168 1 1 in the left text box 2 Type subnet mask for example 255 255 255 0 in the right text box 3 Click Add Network devices using the same subnet mask can now access the SpeedTouch using this IP address Before changing the DHCP pools make sure that at ...

Страница 74: ...ge Proceed as follows 1 In the Home Network menu click Interfaces 2 Click the name of the interface which DHCP pool settings you want to change 3 Click Configure 4 Under DHCP Pools click Add to add a new DCHP pool Edit to edit an existing DHCP pool Delete to delete an existing DHCP pool The DHCP Pool page appears This link will only be shown if there are more than one DHCP pools ...

Страница 75: ...l be assigned to the DHCP clients as their default gateway Primary DNS The IP address of the primary DNS server Secondary DNS The IP address of the secondary DNS server Primary WINS The IP address of the primary WINS server Secondary WINS The IP address of the secondary WINS server Lease Time The time for which the DHCP client is allowed to use the assigned IP address Always give same address to D...

Страница 76: ...68 E DOC CTC 20051017 0137 v2 0 Chapter 4 SpeedTouch Web Interface ...

Страница 77: ... configuring y our SpeedTouch If the suggestions do not resolve the problem look at the support pages on http www speedtouch com support or contact your service provider For Internet connection troubleshooting refer to the provided Installation and Setup Guide Topics In this chapter General SpeedTouch Troubleshooting UPnP on Windows XP Systems Reset to Factory Defaults ...

Страница 78: ...ouch is cannot be reached due to misconfiguration you might consider a hardware reset to factory defaults as described in 5 3 Reset to Factory Defaults on page 74 Poor SpeedTouch performance Make sure that the SpeedTouch is installed and configured as instructed in the Installation and Setup Guide or as instructed by the Service Provider The power requirements for your SpeedTouch are clearly indic...

Страница 79: ...oubleshooting 5 1 1 Ethernet Troubleshooting LANLEDdoesnotlightup Make sure that The LAN cable is securely connected to the 10 100Base T port You are using the correct cable type for your Ethernet equipment that is UTP CAT5 with RJ 45 connectors ...

Страница 80: ...u are running Microsoft Windows XP it is recommended to add the UPnP component to your system Proceed as follows 1 In the Start menu click Settings Control Panel The Control Panel window appears 2 Click Add or Remove Programs The Add or Remove Programs window appears 3 Click Add Remove Windows Components 4 In the Windows Components Wizard select Networking Services in the Components list and click...

Страница 81: ...t 2 Select Settings Control Panel Add or Remove Programs 3 In the Add or Remove Programs window click Add Remove Windows Components The Windows Components Wizard appears 4 Select Networking Services in the Components list and click Details 5 In the Networking Services window Select Internet Gateway Device Discovery and Control Client and click OK 6 Click Next to start the installation and follow t...

Страница 82: ...k list click Reset my SpeedTouch to default settings The SpeedTouch restarts 4 The SpeedTouch returns to the SpeedTouch home page unless the IP address of your computer is not in the same subnet as the default IP address of the SpeedTouch being 192 168 1 254 Hardware reset Proceed as follows 1 Make sure the SpeedTouch is turned on 2 Use a pen or an unfolded paperclip to push the recessed reset but...

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