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52 

VALVE SERVICE

Rev E

To install spring:

1. Inspect the spring for damage. Do not attempt to repair a bent spring.
2. Position yourself on the spring side of the valve discs.
3. Position the spring over the valve body close to final position. The wide 

spring segments will be located at the wide valve discs. The curve of the 
spring will be down into the valley.

4. The long flat close edge is inserted first. This edge slides into a channel 

on the valve body.

5. Rock the spring back and place the flat edge into the channel.
6. Lower the springs until they rest on top of the valve discs.
7. A tool (phillips screwdriver) will be needed to push the springs in place.
8. The spring posts will guide the spring into position.
9. Hold the flat part down with one hand.
10. Spread your fingers apart to cover the length and push down.
11. With the other hand use the tool to push down in the valley of each spring 

segment.

The spring will slide off the top of the valve disc downward. The small 
projection on the end of the spring will drop into the hole in the valve disc to 
provide secure positioning. Repeat for all spring segments.

Relay (Optional)

Holes are provided to mount a standard relay. It is located under the cover on 
the top plate. This relay is wired to the controller and changes the digital 
signal from controller into a signal that can be used to run accessories.

1

2

3

2

NOTE:  

If a spring segment goes beyond the locating hole, it can be pulled 

back using a small flat blade screwdriver.

NOTE:  

In high pressure (80 psi and higher) applications, the standard 

single valve disc springs can be installed on top of the one piece spring.

WARNING:  

The Pentair Water valve is rated for low voltage (less than 

48 volts) microswitch components only. Using a high voltage switch may 
result in damaged valves or fire and may interfere with electronic control 
function.

Содержание AUTOTROL LOGIX 740

Страница 1: ...740 760 Control 255 and Performa Series Valves 268 268FA Operation Manual For Sales Service questions please contact your dealer Your local dealer is ...

Страница 2: ...eries Initial Power Up 30 Initial Start up Step By Step Instructions 31 PLACING CONDITIONER INTO OPERATION turning on the water 34 PROGRAMMING THE 700 FOR 5 CYCLE FILTER APPLICATIONS 37 Manganese Greensand Systems 37 700 Series Advanced Programming 39 Resetting the Logix Control 40 740 760 PROFESSIONAL PROGRAMMING 41 VALVE SERVICE 43 Cover 43 Electronic Control Module 43 Drive Motor 44 Optical Sen...

Страница 3: ...up the camshaft will need to rotate to the HOME in service position Camshaft may take 1 2 minutes to return to home position Err 3 will be displayed until the camshaft returns to home If more than 2 minutes elapses verify that the motor is turning the camshaft If it is not turning see the troubleshooting section Time Day Regen Time Day Salt SU MO TU WE TH FR SA DAYS LBS PM MIN KG x100 x2 P H C Cap...

Страница 4: ...egen Time 2 00 AM is the default time of regeneration To accept this time press the DOWN button to move to step 5 To change the regen time press SET causing 2 00 to flash Use the UP and DOWN buttons to advance to the desired regen time Press SET to accept the time and advance to the next parameter Step 5 Set Days to Regenerate 740 Time clock Control Only If using 760 control proceed to step 5a Set...

Страница 5: ...formation purposes on 740 control it does not and cannot need to be changed To change capacity on 760 control press SET to make the default capacity flash Use the UP and DOWN buttons to increment to the desired capacity Press SET to accept the setting and advance to the next parameter If using 740 control programming is complete The control will return you to the normal operation mode Step 8 Enter...

Страница 6: ... take 1 2 minutes Regeneration Cycles C1 Backwash C2 Regenerant Draw Slow Rinse not used in filter mode C3 Slow Rinse not used in filter mode C4 System Pause to repressurize tank C5 Fast rinse cycle 1 C6 Backwash cycle 2 not used in filter mode C7 Fast Rinse cycle 2 not used in filter mode C8 Regenerant refill not used in filter mode Resetting The Control To reset the control 1 Press and hold SET ...

Страница 7: ...on installing this equipment should have Training in the 700 Logix series controllers and water conditioner installation Knowledge of water conditioning and how to determine proper control settings Basic plumbing skills The directional instructions left and right are determined by looking at the front of the unit Icons That Appear In This Manual Left Side Right Side WARNING Failure to follow this ...

Страница 8: ...bricants All plastic connections should be hand tightened Teflon tape may be used on connections that do not use an O ring seal Do not use pliers or pipe wrenches All plumbing must be completed according to local codes Soldering near the drain line should be done before connecting the drain line to the valve Excessive heat will cause interior damage to the valve Observe drain line requirements Do ...

Страница 9: ...any plastic parts Do not get primer or solvent on O rings nuts or the valve System Regeneration Cycles 7 Cycle Operation 1 Service Downflow Cycle C0 Untreated water is directed down through the resin bed and up through the riser tube The hardness ions attach themselves to the resin and are removed from the water The water is conditioned as it passes through the resin bed 2 Backwash Upflow Cycles C...

Страница 10: ...residual is rinsed from the resin bed 6 Brine Refill Cycle C8 Brine refill occurs during a portion of the fast rinse cycle Water is directed to the regenerant tank at a controlled rate to create brine for the next regeneration Figure 1 SERVICE BACKWASH BRINE SLOW RINSE FAST RINSE From Regenerant Tank To Regenerant Tank BRINE REFILL REPRESSURIZE C0 C1 and C6 C2 and C3 C4 C5 and C7 C8 ...

Страница 11: ...all Air Check Regenerant Tank Refill Controller Injector and Cap Outlet Inlet Drain Backwash Locking Bar Injector Valve Discs Camshaft Drain Control Screen Filter Manifold Motor Optical Sensor Control Module Mount One Piece Valve Tube Connection Connection Disc Spring Right Side Left Side ...

Страница 12: ...rforma Valve Identification Refill Controller Regenerant Tube Connection Injector and cap Valve Discs Outlet Drain Inlet Backwash Injector Screen Camshaft Drain Control Filter Control Module Mount One Piece Valve Disc Spring Motor Optical Sensor ...

Страница 13: ...f ten feet three meters to prevent backup of hot water into system Local drain for discharge as close as possible Water line connections with shutoff or bypass valves Must meet any local and state codes for site of installation Valve is designed for minor plumbing misalignments Do not support weight of system on the plumbing Be sure all soldered pipes are fully cooled before attaching plastic valv...

Страница 14: ...valve This will cause physical damage to the internal parts as well as the plumbing High temperatures will affect the controller The display may become unreadable but the controller should continue to function When the temperature drops down into normal operating limits the display will return to normal A protective cover P N 1267811 should assist with high temperature applications Insects The con...

Страница 15: ...odies Figure 7 Typical Globe Valve Bypass System Normal Operation In Bypass B Y P A S S B Y P A S S B Y P A S S B Y P A S S In Out In Out Normal Operation In Bypass B Y P A S S B Y P A S S B Y P A S S B Y P A S S Water Conditioner In Out Water Conditioner In Out Water C Water C di i Normal Operation In Bypass Water Conditioner Water Conditioner ...

Страница 16: ...the far end of the line so that the bottom of the loop is level with the drain line connection This will provide an adequate siphon trap Where the drain empties into an overhead sewer line a sink type trap must be used Secure the end of the drain line to prevent it from moving WARNING The inlet water must be connected to the inlet port of the valve When replacing non Pentair Water valves the inlet...

Страница 17: ...of 1 2 inch 1 3 cm I D tubing not supplied to fitting and run to drain Do not elevate overflow line higher than overflow fitting Do not tie into drain line of control unit Overflow line must be a direct separate line from overflow fitting to drain sewer or tub Allow an air gap as per drain line instructions Right Way Air Gap Drain NOTE Waste connections or drain outlet shall be designed and constr...

Страница 18: ... to drain out and the conditioner will not draw regenerant from the tank This may also introduce air into the valve causing problems with valve operation Most installations utilize a tank check valve This is not necessary when using the 255 valve with the built in aircheck Using a tank check valve with the 255 valve with aircheck will result in premature checking of the aircheck valve before the t...

Страница 19: ...ing a Performa valve NOTE When installing a 3 cycle filter 253 or 263 valve use a cap on the regenerant line connection to prevent water seepage from the port See Parts and Accessories section for part number Regenerant Line Connection NOTE Be sure to use plumbing connection tube when attaching regenerant line connections to the Performa valve ...

Страница 20: ... on 12 volt alternating current power supply This requires use of the supplied AC adapter A variety of AC adapters are available for different applications These AC adapters are available from your supplier They include AC Adapter Input Voltage Application Part Number Standard wall mount AC adapter 120V 60Hz Standard indoor application 1000811 Outdoor rated AC adapter 120V 60Hz UL listed for outdo...

Страница 21: ...te mount connection P N 1256257 is available for the 700 Series controller Valve Camshaft The front end of the camshaft has an indicator cup The cup has slots in the outer periphery and numbers on the inside face Figure 13 The numbers can be seen with the cover off from the front over the top of the controller The number at the top indicates which regeneration cycle is currently in progress Figure...

Страница 22: ... Pause C5 Fast Rinse Cycle 1 C6 Backwash Cycle 2 not used in filter mode C7 Fast Rinse Cycle 2 not used in filter mode C8 Regenerant Refill not used in filter mode Valve Disc Operation Figure 14 255 Valve Figure 15 Performa Valve 263 268 1 Regenerant 2 Inlet 4 Bypass 3 Outlet 5 Rinse Drain 6 Backwash Drain 1 Regenerant Valve 2 Bypass Valve 3 Inlet Valve 4 Outlet Valve 5 Refill Valve 7 Backwash Dra...

Страница 23: ...rade names such as Clorox If stronger solutions are used such as those sold for commercial laundries adjust the dosage accordingly 1 Dosage A Polystyrene resin 1 2 fluid ounce 35 5 ml per cubic foot B Non resinous exchangers 0 8 fluid ounce 23 7 ml per cubic foot 2 Brine tank conditioners A Backwash the conditioner and add the required amount of hypochlorite solution to the well of the regenerant ...

Страница 24: ...over and disconnect the controller module from the control valve In the back of the control valve is a silver label that will show your model number and version revision Figure 16 Pentair Water USA Glendale WI Operations Model 740 12 V 60 Hz 4W VERSION 1 02 WO 4340000 Ser No 740090052683 3 Model number either 740 740C or 760 760C Serial number with date code ...

Страница 25: ... 700 series controller uses a standard 12 volt AC motor that works with either 50 Hz or 60 Hz The same motor is used worldwide and does not need to be changed for different power conditions Power 700 Series controllers are available in two power configurations 1 The North American model requires 60 Hz input The controller will dis play USA units when power is first applied 2 The World model accept...

Страница 26: ...water usage schedule A variable reserve saves salt and water by only regenerating when absolutely necessary and ensures enough soft water for typical high water usage days Each day of regeneration the controller reviews the last four weeks of water usage for the same day of the week to determine if the remaining capacity is adequate for the next day of the week If the remaining capacity is not ade...

Страница 27: ... the time or program value Also used for error codes 9 Colon flashes as part of the time display Indicates normal operation 10 Locked unlocked indicator In Level I programming this is displayed when the current parameter is locked out It is also used in Level II programming to indicate if the displayed parameter will be locked icon will flash when controller is in Level I 11 When x2 is displayed a...

Страница 28: ... only in Level II Programming The number displayed by 23 identifies which parameter is currently displayed 23 Cycle C The number displayed by 23 is the current cycle in the regeneration sequence 24 Hardness setting only used with 760 and 760C controllers 25 Capacity display shows estimated system capacity KEYPAD Buttons 1 DOWN arrow Generally used to scroll down or increment through a group of cho...

Страница 29: ...eration will be displayed on the controller The current cycle is shown in the lower left of the display To Initiate a Manual Regeneration Press REGEN once for delayed regeneration System will regenerate at next set regen time 2 00 AM A flashing regen recycle symbol will be displayed Press and hold REGEN for 5 seconds to initiate immediate manual regeneration A solid regen symbol will be displayed ...

Страница 30: ...d in filter mode 740 760 Series Initial Power Up Initial Power Up Camshaft proceeds to HOME position At initial power up the camshaft may need to rotate to the HOME in service position Camshaft may take 1 to 2 minutes to return to HOME position Err 3 will be displayed until the camshaft returns to HOME position If more than 2 minutes elapses verify that the motor is turning the camshaft If it is n...

Страница 31: ...ct time of day and advance to the next parameter Step 3 Set Day of Week Press SET to make the arrow under SU flash Use the UP and DOWN buttons to advance the arrow until it is under the correct day of week Press SET to accept and advance to the next parameter After steps 1 4 the controller will operate most systems Proceed to step 4 if further adjustments to your system s programming is needed Tim...

Страница 32: ...mber of days desired Press SET to accept the regen frequency and advance to the next cycle Step 6 Amount of Regenerant used per Regeneration Set desired regenerant amount Default setting is S standard salting 3 salt settings are available on 740 and 760 controls S Standard Salt 9 lbs cubic foot of resin 120 grams liter of resin H High Salt 15 lbs cubic foot of resin 200 grams liter of resin L Low ...

Страница 33: ...pacity flash Use the UP and DOWN buttons to increment to the desired capacity Press SET to accept the setting and advance to the next parameter If using the 740 control programming is complete The control will return you to the normal operation mode Step 9 Enter Hardness 760 Demand Control Only Enter inlet water hardness at installation site Default hardness setting is 10 grains ppm for metric To ...

Страница 34: ...ing in the current cycle 4 Fill the media tank with water A While the controller is in cycle C1 Backwash open the water supply valve very slowly to approximately the 1 4 open position B When all of the air has been purged from the media tank water begins to flow steadily from the drain line open the main supply valve all of the way This will purge the final air from the tank C Allow water to run t...

Страница 35: ...on simultaneously to advance to cycle C0 Treated Water position 7 Draw water from the regenerant tank A From the treated water position cycle C0 advance the valve to the draw regenerant position Hold the REGEN button down for five seconds The controller will begin a manual regen and advance the control valve to the cycle C1 Backwash Press the SET and UP button to advance to cycle C2 Draw B With th...

Страница 36: ... Hz input The preset default time of regeneration is 2 00 AM English or Metric The World controller senses the electrical input and decides which is needed The North American controller only runs on 60 Hz and defaults to English units The 700 Series controller can be programmed to regenerate on specific days of the week If electrical power is not available the camshaft can be rotated counterclockw...

Страница 37: ...ystem contains two cubic feet of manganese greensand program in 2 00 for the resin volume Salt Setting for KMNO3 Regenerant Since the same injector is used for the filter application FA system and the conditioner system be sure the regenerant salt setting is set to High H to allow adequate time to rinse the media All other settings will remain the same as mentioned in the previous programming sect...

Страница 38: ...nd system for iron removal you must 1 Know your media capacity Generally one cubic foot of magnesium greensand can remove 10 000 ppm of iron 2 Know the iron concentration in your water To have your system regenerate on demand set your system s capacity P7 to the appropriate factor On the 760 it will read Kg but you will actually be working in ppm of iron 1 If your system is one cubic foot set the ...

Страница 39: ...splays only when number of days between regeneration equals zero 7 day timer Amount of regenerant used per regeneration or filter backwash time System capacity view only Action Key Duration Display Enter basic programming SET Press and Release Will show day of week Move to desired display UP or DOWN arrows Press and Release Will increment through the displays Enable setting to be changed SET Press...

Страница 40: ...on 0 255 H2 Current flow rate 0 47 GPM or 0 177 LPM H3 Water used today in gallons m3 since Time of Regeneration 0 65536 gallons or 0 6553 6 m3 H4 Water used since last regeneration in gallons m3 0 65536 gallons or 0 6553 6 m3 H5 Total water used since reset in 100s 0 65536 gallons or 0 6553 6 m3 H6 Total water used since reset in 1 000 000 0 65536 gallons or 0 6553 6 m3 H7 Average usage for Sunda...

Страница 41: ...eek P3 Time of regeneration P4 Number of days between regeneration P5 Not used P6 Amount of regenerant used per regeneration or filter backwash time P7 System capacity P8 Hardness P9 Units of measure P10 Clock mode NOTE If a button is not pushed for thirty seconds the controller returns to normal operation mode Pushing the UP and DOWN arrows for 5 seconds returns the controller to normal operation...

Страница 42: ...electrical input and determines a 12 or 24 hour clock 0 is a 12 hour clock 1 is 24 hour clock Use the arrow buttons to change this setting Press SET to accept the setting Action Key Duration Display Enter Level II programming UP and DOWN 5 sec P1 display Return to operation UP and DOWN 5 sec Time and day of week Increment through menus UP and DOWN P R Next parameter display Enable setting to be ch...

Страница 43: ...roller and drop down over the camshaft 3 To finish grasp the side edges and pull outward to clear the projections on the top plate 4 Drop down until the cover snaps in place Electronic Control Module The purpose of the electronic control module is to control the regeneration cycle The control module has several variations When replacing the controller use the same model or some functions may not w...

Страница 44: ...aft gear to drive rotate the camshaft During operation rotation forces the motor into its mounting position and screws or bolts are not needed To remove motor 1 Disconnect power to the unit 2 Remove cover 3 Pull off wiring connector 4 Grasp the motor body and rotate counterclockwise 5 Pull motor out To install motor 1 Insert gear through hole on top plate and mesh with camshaft Cam may need to be ...

Страница 45: ...Pull the holder away from the mounting surface 6 Remove wires To install optical sensor 1 Attach wires Wires should point away from camshaft 2 Place leading edge of sensor holder into opening 3 Pivot holder into place Legs should enter slots and snap in place NOTE Damaged sensors should be replaced Sensors may be cleaned with compressed air or a soft brush Do not bend the legs on the optical senso...

Страница 46: ...ed water normal operation mode C1 Backwash C2 Regenerant draw not used in filter mode C3 Slow rinse not used in filter mode C4 System pause C5 Fast rinse cycle 1 C6 Backwash cycle 2 not used in filter mode C7 Fast rinse cycle 2 not used in filter mode C8 Regenerant refill not used in filter mode These numbers are offset rotationally 90 degrees from the matching slot The offset enables the service ...

Страница 47: ...its final position 5 The camshaft will push on one or more valve discs You will feel resistance as you complete the installation 6 Move the camshaft down and into position Force valve discs to move as needed 7 Move the camshaft forward Check that the optical sensor is in position 8 Install motor NOTE When replacing removing camshaft make sure not to damage or mis align the optical sensor Hold the ...

Страница 48: ...e connectors latch in place Figure 18 Wire Harness Routing To remove a wiring harnesses 1 Disconnect power to the unit 2 Remove cover 3 Remove controller 4 Remove connections by squeezing the latch on the connector and pulling out 5 Pull the harness out of the clips on the top plate Do not run wires through holes in topplate Turbine Wire Clips Slots for Motor and Turbine Harness Latch ...

Страница 49: ...able as kits from Pentair Water or a standard microswitch can be used as well To install microswitch 1 Connect wires 2 Use self tapping screws to secure the switch base to the blind boss top plate 3 Adjust microswitch distance to cam NOTE Start at the back of the valve and work toward the controller This will place any slack behind the controller Slack or loose wires can become tangled in the cams...

Страница 50: ... To install microswitch 1 Connect wires 2 Screw switch base to top plate using the switch guide pin over screw boss 3 Attach the switch cam to front of the camshaft with a self tapping screw Adjust to the appropriate cycle and tighten WARNING The Pentair Water valve is rated for low voltage less than 48 volts microswitch components only Using a high voltage switch may result in damaged valves or f...

Страница 51: ...valve discs open with a screw driver 7 Locate valve discs 2 3 and 4 for 255 valve or valve discs 3 4 and 5 for Performa valves 8 Position yourself on the spring side of the valve discs 9 Place two or more fingers on the flat part of the spring 10 Move the fingers toward the valve discs and into the spring valley between the previously located valve discs 11 By pulling back and up on the spring the...

Страница 52: ...th the other hand use the tool to push down in the valley of each spring segment The spring will slide off the top of the valve disc downward The small projection on the end of the spring will drop into the hole in the valve disc to provide secure positioning Repeat for all spring segments Relay Optional Holes are provided to mount a standard relay It is located under the cover on the top plate Th...

Страница 53: ...k to top plate 4 Clip wires with plastic tie wrap to ensure that the wires do not tangle in camshaft Transformer Optional A transformer is available to be mounted under the cover Holes are provided on the top plate for a standard 24 VAC to 12 VAC transformer This type of transformer is used when the plug in AC adapter is not acceptable To install transformer 1 Disconnect power to unit 2 Remove cov...

Страница 54: ...he raised ridge on the underside of the top shoulder Check each valve disc cavity in the valve for debris Remove any foreign objects before replacing the valve disc To install valve discs 1 Put the valve disc into the correct based on shoulder size valve port cav ity The metal end without rubber coating should be visible 2 Push down on the shoulder to position the valve disc completely into the po...

Страница 55: ...turn it in 6 The fourth screw goes into the hole diagonally opposite Turn it in 7 Put the remaining screws in following the same criss cross pattern working from the ends toward the center When all the screws are in place they can be tightened down 8 Start at the corner of the screw pattern and tighten that screw Work the same pattern from the ends toward center and criss crossing as each screw is...

Страница 56: ...56 PARTS AND ACCESSORIES Rev E PARTS AND ACCESSORIES 255 Valve Exploded View 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 11 12 14 15 16 10 18A 20 13 17 19 13 18B Warning Do not use flow control ball with 18A 21 21 22 ...

Страница 57: ...1 4 inch male 11 Locking Bar 1 20 1235373 Module Sensor Photo Interrupter 1 1031402 English Language Locking Bar 21 1030502 Ball Flow Control 1 1031403 French Language Locking Bar 1033066 New to Old Style Aircheck Adapter 1 1031404 German Language Locking Bar 22 1235446 Turbine Cable 1 1031405 Italian Language Locking Bar 1233187 Motor Locking Pin 1031406 Japanese Language Locking Bar 1268102 No S...

Страница 58: ...inch BSPT Drain 1001615 25 mm CPVC Tube Adapter Kit 1 1040279 3 4 inch NPT Noryl 1 2 inch NPT Drain 1001769 3 4 inch NPT Plastic Pipe Adapter Kit 1 1040280 1 inch NPT Noryl 1 2 inch NPT Drain 1001603 1 inch NPT Plastic Pipe Adapter Kit 1 1040283 3 4 inch BSPT Noryl 1 2 inch BSPT 1001604 3 4 inch BSPT Plastic Pipe Adapter Kit 1 Drain 1001605 1 inch BSPT Plastic Pipe Adapter Kit 1 1040284 1 inch BSP...

Страница 59: ...PARTS AND ACCESSORIES 59 Rev E Performa Exploded View 2 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10A 11 12 13 14 16 17 7 15 18 10B 11 Warning Do not use the flow control ball with 10A 19 20 ...

Страница 60: ...be Adapter Kit 1030355 Drain Line Flow Control 5 gpm 19 Lpm 1001613 3 4 inch CPVC Tube Adapter Kit 1030356 Drain Line Flow Control 6 gpm 22 5 Lpm 1001614 1 inch CPVC Tube Adapter Kit 1030357 Drain Line Flow Control 7 gpm 26 5 Lpm 1001615 25 mm CPVC Tube Adapter Kit 1030358 Drain Line Flow Control 8 gpm 30 Lpm 1001769 3 4 inch NPT Plastic Pipe Adapter Kit 1030359 Drain Line Flow Control 9 gpm 34 Lp...

Страница 61: ...dules Controllers 1 AC Adapter 1242146 Logix 740 Controller 1000810 Japanese 1242148 Logix 740F Controller 1000811 North American 1242163 Logix 760 Controller 1000812 Australian 1242166 Logix 760F Controller 1000813 British Electrical Components 1000814 European 1235269 Motor Optical Cable Assembly 700 1030234 Transformer Extension Cord 15 foot 4 5m Series Control 1235448 North American Outdoor AC...

Страница 62: ...should be flashing on the display indicating the motor is running Camshaft is not turning during ERR 3 display Check that motor is connected Verify that motor wire harness is connected to motor and controller module Verify that optical sensor is connected and in place Verify that motor gear has engaged cam gear If everything is connected try replacing in this order Wire harness Motor Optical senso...

Страница 63: ...ntact dealer f Put control momentarily into brine refill C8 Replace or repair air check if needed Contact dealer 5 Control will not regenerate automatically a AC adapter or motor not connected b Defective motor a Connect power b Replace motor Contact dealer 6 Control regenerates at wrong time of day a Controller set incorrectly a Correct time setting according to instructions 7 Valve will not draw...

Страница 64: ...s or capacity settings d Water hardness has increased e Restricted meter turbine rotation due to foreign material in meter a Repeat regeneration making certain that correct regenerant dosage is used b Set P6 to proper level See salt setting chart c Set to correct values See Programming section d Set hardness to new value See Programming section e Remove meter housing free up turbine and flush with...

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