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Table of Contents

Introduction   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
What’s in the Box?   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
About the Delta 410 Digital PCI Audio Card   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Quick Start Guide  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3
Product Features & Specifications   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Minimum System Requirements  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Breakout Cable:   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .5
PCI Host Adapter Card:   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6
Hardware Installation   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6
Delta Driver Software Installation - for PC  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7

Windows 2000 Installation   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7
Windows 98 Installation   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7
Windows 95 Installation   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8
Windows NT Installation   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9

Verifying Windows Driver Installation   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9
Verifying Delta Control Panel Software Installation   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10
Delta Driver Software Installation - for Mac    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11
Delta Control Panel Installation - for Mac   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .12
Delta System Basics   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .12

Delta’s Analog Inputs/Outputs   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .12
The Digital Monitor Mixer   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .13
The Patchbay / Router  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .13
Synchronization   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .13

Using the Delta 410 with your Music Software Application   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .14
Delta 410 Control Panel Software - PC  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .16

Monitor Mixer Page   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .17
Patchbay/Router Page   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .19
Hardware Settings Page   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .22
S/PDIF Page   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .24
About Page   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .25
Save, Delete, Load Buttons; H/W Installed   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .25

Delta 410 Control Panel Software - Mac   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .26

Patchbay/Router Page    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .29
Hardware Settings Page    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .31
S/PDIF Page    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .34

Delta 410 Recording Tutorials   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .36
Typical Setup #1  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .37
Typical Setup #2  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .43

Transferring from DAT to Delta 410   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .44
Transferring from 410 to DAT, monitoring with DAT  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .46

Troubleshooting   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .47
Troubleshooting Tips for Frequently Asked Questions   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .51
Appendix A - Technical Specs   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .53
Appendix B-If You Use An External Mixer...   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .54
Limited Lifetime Warranty   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .56

version: 

D410-110901

Delta 410 Manual

Summary of Contents for Delta 410

Page 1: ...nalog Inputs Outputs 12 The Digital Monitor Mixer 13 The Patchbay Router 13 Synchronization 13 Using the Delta 410 with your Music Software Application 14 Delta 410 Control Panel Software PC 16 Monitor Mixer Page 17 Patchbay Router Page 19 Hardware Settings Page 22 S PDIF Page 24 About Page 25 Save Delete Load Buttons H W Installed 25 Delta 410 Control Panel Software Mac 26 Patchbay Router Page 29...

Page 2: ...ranty Registration card About the Delta 410 Digital PCI Audio Card The Delta 410 functions as a 4 input 10 output digital recording playback interface Two analog inputs and eight analog outputs plus coaxial S PDIF I O give you the highest quality analog unbalanced and digital I O available all up to 24 bit data width and any sampling rate from 8kHz to 96kHz You can connect your instrument mixer or...

Page 3: ...will however need a music recording software application to take full advantage of the Delta 410 as a production tool and most likely that software will need to analyze and configure the Delta 410 this usually occurs when first launching the program after the Delta 410 has been installed On the PC the 410 is also capable of playing an encoded surround sound signal to the S PDIF output using some o...

Page 4: ... on gold plated RCA connectors located on the PCI card A variety of settings including AC3 or DTS surround and copy protection schemes can be set via the Delta Control Panel High dynamic range A weighted measured D A 101 5 dB A D 99 6 dB Low distortion measured THD 0dBFS A D and D A less than 0 002 Frequency Response 22 22kHz 0 2 0 4dB 48kHz 22 40kHz 0 2 0 7dB 96kHz All data paths support up to 24...

Page 5: ...a variety of external sources Each jack is RCA coaxial and is compatible with RCA coaxial unbalanced connections These cables are tan in color with the jacks colored tan for left and red for right 2 Analog Outputs 1 8 These jacks output analog audio to a variety of external targets Each jack is RCA coaxial and is compatible with RCA coaxial unbalanced connections These cables are black in color wi...

Page 6: ...uter however some newer computers have only PCI slots 4 Before removing the Delta 410 PCI host card from its protective anti static bag touch the metal power supply case of the computer in order to dissipate any static electricity your body may have accumulated You might want to pick up a grounding wrist strap available from electronics stores like Radio Shack if you want to be doubly sure you are...

Page 7: ... Windows will give you a selection of locations to search Make sure that only Choose a Path is checked or click on the check box to do so Insert the Driver CD into your CD ROM drive Type in the drive letter of your CD drive we will assume here that it is D and the path to the Delta drivers which will be D Delta Series Wdm Click Next 4 The Wizard reports that its Windows driver file search has foun...

Page 8: ...cified location Click Next Windows will start to copy the files and show you a progress report screen 6 The Wizard reports that Windows has finished installing the software Click Finish Your Delta 410 is ready for action After completion of the driver installation Windows may require you to restart Windows If it does request a restart remove the Drivers CD Disk from the CD drive and respond Yes Th...

Page 9: ...the list Click OK 5 The Install Driver box will prompt you to insert the driver disk and the A prompt will appear as the path Insert the Drivers CD into your CD ROM drive Type in the drive letter of your CD drive we will assume here that it is D and the path to the Delta drivers which will be D Delta Products DeltaNT Click OK 6 The M Audio Delta Interface Card driver will appear in the Add Unliste...

Page 10: ...ndows open the Windows Control Panel do so via Start Settings Control Panel If your Delta 410 hardware and Delta Control Panel software are properly installed the Windows Control Panel should display an M Audio Delta H W icon By double clicking on that icon you can launch the Delta Control Panel software For convenience you may also create a shortcut on your desktop by dragging a copy of the M Aud...

Page 11: ...ASIO2 Delta410 driver For Metro or earlier versions of Cubase use the ASIO Delta410v3 driver For any music program that is not ASIO2 capable use the ASIO Delta 410 driver instead check your program s documentation Place the file ASIO Delta in your program s ASIO folder by clicking on it and dragging it to the ASIO folder 3 Drag the DeltaPanel PPC file onto your Macintosh hard drive You can run the...

Page 12: ...ts The Delta 410 PCI Audio Card s analog inputs and outputs are compatible with a wide variety of audio products The Delta Control Panel software allows you to configure the signal level of each analog output individually or all analog outputs as a group Signal level settings of Consumer and 10 are available The Consumer setting is preferred for semi pro audio equipment and some consumer equipment...

Page 13: ...ormat or directly connecting inputs to outputs for system test purposes Synchronization For proper operation the entire Delta 410 system is always synchronized to a single master clock The master clock is chosen via the Delta Control Panel software or may be set from within your ASIO or EASI application This clock may be derived from the Delta 410 s internal crystal oscillators or the S PDIF In Mo...

Page 14: ... highlight or enable the Delta 410 drivers within the program and others may have a utility that analyzes or profiles the audio cards in your system and enables the drivers Your software should have an audio device driver setup page WINDOWS MME AUDIO INPUT DEVICES All Delta 410 analog and S PDIF inputs may be used simultaneously for a total of 4 input channels Within your software application s th...

Page 15: ...each device name begins with WavOut This is to remind you that these are software devices and not always connected directly to output hardware Instead they are connected to the Delta 410 s internal patchbay router and may be sent to one of many destinations For more on the patchbay router see the Patchbay Router section of the Delta Control Panel software discussion ASIO or EASI DRIVER INPUT DEVIC...

Page 16: ...ll be Sound Manager both for input source and for output port To select the Sound Manager driver open the Apple Menu and go to Control Panel Sounds For both Sound In and Sound Out click and highlight the Delta icon then exit You may select which Delta hardware stereo input pair and stereo output pair will be used for the Sound Manager s Sound In and Sound Out in the Delta Control Panel Hardware Se...

Page 17: ... when the Delta Control Panel is opened and controls the digital mixer built into the Delta 410 s PCI controller chip As described in previous sections the output of this mixer may be assigned to the OUT1 OUT2 analog outputs and or the S PDIF Out digital output this selection is made in the Patchbay Router page At the same time the mixer outputs may be recorded in stereo by software The Monitor Mi...

Page 18: ... occur Therefore be careful to adjust the incoming audio levels so that they do not peak in the red section too long you might use the monitoring capability of the Delta 410 to let your ears be the judge On all output level meters 0dB indicates full scale output Unlike the inputs clipping is impossible on the outputs because of the 36 bit resolution built into the mixer hardware MASTER VOLUME At t...

Page 19: ...ng is being adjusted its value will appear numerically in the Master Volume s status box below the Master Volume Stereo Gang control as a percentage from left pan to right pan 100 represents far left 100 represents far right and 0 represents the center SOLO Each mixer input channel has a Solo checkbox associated with it Clicking on and activating a Solo box will solo the selected channel by essent...

Page 20: ...5 Selection five connects the hardware analog input 1 2 directly to the 410 s hardware analog outputs 1 2 In other words if H W In 1 2 were selected any signal present at the IN1 RCA jack will be copied to OUT1 and any signal present at the IN2 RCAjack will be copied to OUT2 The next three vertical columns of the Patchbay Router page from left to right H W Out 3 4 H W Out 5 6 and H W Out 7 8 conne...

Page 21: ...l of S PDIF Out and the right channel of the S PDIF In is routed to the right channel of S PDIF Out 4 The fourth option S PDIF In L R Rev functions identically to the third option except that the left and right channels are swapped Therefore in this mode the left channel of the S PDIF In is routed to the right channel of S PDIF Out and the right channel of the S PDIF In is routed to the left chann...

Page 22: ...r when the signal is corrupt or invalid for any reason CODEC SAMPLE RATE This section indicates the present board sample rate as set by application software The sample rate selected here will be used to drive the digital mixer and all outputs The Rate Locked checkbox is used to force a sample rate upon the system It is disabled by default to allow software access to all supported sample rates When...

Page 23: ... master clock and connect the S PDIF output of the first card to the S PDIF input of the second card etc This ensures that when the application goes into record or playback it waits until all audio ports are open before it commences with recording or playback of audio DMA BUFFER SIZES This section specifies the amount of system memory dedicated to digital audio buffering Setting a buffer size that...

Page 24: ...el software DIGITAL INPUT This group box displays the current S PDIF input status The Delta 410 s S PDIF receiver is capable of recognizing a valid input signal versus an invalid corrupt or non present one When a valid signal is detected at S PDIF In this group box displays Valid Input Detected When an invalid signal is detected or no signal is present the group box displays Invalid or Not Present...

Page 25: ...ng digital audio signal The default is None and rarely will any user want to set the value to 50 15uSec unless the transmitted audio has been encoded with 50 15uSec pre emphasis PROFESSIONAL FORMAT ADVANCED SETTINGS Data Type The user may assign the outgoing data as audio or non audio data Many devices ignore this setting The obvious default is audio however choosing non audio is appropriate if yo...

Page 26: ...installed Delta cards and allows you to select which particular card is under the control of the control panel software To select a card for configuration click the radio button to the left of that particular card in the H W Installed list Delta 410 Control Panel Software Mac The Delta Control Panel must be placed on the hard drive by dragging the application from the Drivers CD Once this is done ...

Page 27: ...rolled by dragging the fader handle vertically with the mouse or by clicking on the handle to make it active and then adjusting it with the up down cursor keys of your computer keyboard Because the mixer has no gain these faders only attenuate reduce the signal levels The highest setting is 0dB or Unity Gain The default fader setting is the quietest setting 144dB which essentially mutes the audio ...

Page 28: ...aster volume faders MIXER INPUTS The Mixer Inputs are inputs to the monitor mixer These inputs accept hardware audio streams directly from the Delta s analog and digital input ports and software audio streams digital audio generated in software to be output This combination of streams makes the monitor mixer extremely flexible Each mixer input channel has its own level fader and may be panned anyw...

Page 29: ... solo boxes will return all input channels to their previous mute unmute states MUTE Every mixer input channel has a Mute checkbox associated with it Clicking on and activating the Mute box will remove that signal from the stereo buss Deactivating the Mute box will add the signal back into the stereo buss STEREO GANG All input channel pairs have a Stereo Gang capability Clicking on and activating ...

Page 30: ...se hardware analog outputs to one of four sources Since the three columns function identically we ll use H W Out 3 4 as the example 1 The default setting SM ASIO 3 4 connects ports OUT3 and OUT4 to your music software or Sound Manager applet provided that Out 3 4 is your selection for Sound Manager output See next section Hardware Settings Page In other words when music software plays audio to the...

Page 31: ...he left and right channels are swapped Therefore in this mode the left channel of the S PDIF In is routed to the right channel of S PDIF Out and the right channel of the S PDIF In is routed to the left channel of S PDIF Out 5 Selection five connects the hardware analog inputs 1 2 directly to the 410 s S PDIF Out port In other words if H W In 1 2 were selected any signal present at the IN1 RCA jack...

Page 32: ...is used to force a sample rate upon the system It is disabled by default to allow software access to all supported sample rates When checked it causes the driver to only operate at the selected sample rate This means that any application that attempts to open the Delta 410 driver at a sample rate other than the one selected here will fail to do so and will post an error message Reset Rate When Idl...

Page 33: ... with the Delta 410 set the buffer size in the control panel then exit the control panel After doing so launch your music software SOUND MANAGER The Hardware Settings Page in the Delta Control Panel also contains software switches that allow you to select which Delta input and output stereo pair will be used by the Sound Manager if and when you choose the Delta as the Sound Manager input and outpu...

Page 34: ...lve increments below the maximum setting effectively lowering the output line level by 6dB This represents a line level that will interface well with equipment that will not accept the hotter signal As a general rule of thumb if you have the outputs set to the Consumer level and you find that you have to turn the record or input level on the receiving device down to a very low setting try decreasi...

Page 35: ... will appear When Professional and Advanced are both selected the group Professional Format Advanced Settings will appear These groups are described below CONSUMER FORMAT ADVANCED SETTINGS Copy Mode Copy protection also known as Serial Copy Management System SCMS is written into the S PDIF subcode a reserved part of the S PDIF digital stream that is independent of the actual audio data being trans...

Page 36: ...nce you have done so click the Save button To save the current settings as your default go to the File menu and choose Save as Preferences In the upper right hand corner of the control panel is a H W Installed drop down list At the time of this writing the Delta Mac ASIO drivers will support only a single Delta device and of course the Sound Manager will support only one stereo pair regardless of ...

Page 37: ...y potentially make very loud noises it s a good idea to have all monitor levels set low or muted while hooking up audio equipment you may even choose to turn your computer off before making the connections 1 Plug the guitar into the channel 1 Line input of the pre amp Plug the microphone into the channel 2 Mic input 2 Plug the outputs 1 2 of the pre amp into the Delta 410 s analog inputs 1 2 Use a...

Page 38: ...nal Xtal is the default setting for the Delta Control Panel so selecting it may not be necessary it may already be selected 7 Under CODEC Sample Rate verify that the Rate Locked checkbox is not activated This will allow your application software to set the Delta 410 sample rate as it pleases 8 Since this example will include the use of the monitor mixer we will activate the Reset Rate When Idle fe...

Page 39: ...s OUT1 and OUT2 Now everything that we hear at outputs 1 2 will reflect our settings in the Monitor Mixer page Select the Monitor Mixer tab of the Delta Control Panel The default Master Volume fader settings are 0dB and unmuted and all other faders are set to full attenuation 144dB and muted We will need to adjust these to our preference The screen capture on the next page shows the settings that ...

Page 40: ...ing a good level on the input meters about 6dB to 3dB in the loudest parts this is playing it a safe because you don t want to hit 0dB and clip the signal Make similar adjustments for the microphone using the right fader These are the levels at which the signals will be recorded 12 Now let s set the levels at which you will monitor the mic and guitar while recording These are not to be confused wi...

Page 41: ... is now set up to record the guitar and track two the microphone If your software requires this set the software s clock source to Audio 16 Press record on your software s transport bar Record a take of your guitar and vocals Understand that while recording you are monitoring the Delta inputs by way of the Monitor Mixer settings for H W In 1 2 and according to the selection of Monitor Mixer within...

Page 42: ... 2 Delta 410 on track three and Right PCM In 1 2 Delta 410 on track four Arm the tracks for recording Track three is now set up to record the guitar and track four the microphone Usually at this point you would want to return to the Delta Control Panel monitor mixer to set up levels However because you will be recording the same instruments that you did on the first two tracks you probably won t n...

Page 43: ...thin the software application if it supports it Most applications will allow you to assign more than one track to an output device and then set the relative levels of the tracks within the software letting the software do the mixing In this example you could have assigned all of the playback tracks to WavOut 1 2 and let the software handle the mix Typical Setup 2 Let s look at a setup that involve...

Page 44: ...peakers or head phones 3 Because you will be recording from the S PDIF input you will need to set up the Delta 410 to synchronize its master clock with the S PDIF input To do this open the Hardware Settings page of the control panel software Under Master Clock select S PDIF In 4 Next you will need to tell your application software the expected sample rate We ll use 44 1 kHz in this example Therefo...

Page 45: ...ill be completely bypassed Once this assignment is made you may play the DAT material at any time and verify that it is making it into the Delta 410 successfully This can be done regardless of whether or not your recording software is open 6 Within your recording software select S PDIF In Delta 410 as the audio input device The Delta input appears as a stereo pair 7 Start your software recording a...

Page 46: ... Router page of the control panel software In the H W Out S PDIF column select the radio button named WavOut S PDIF Now everything that is sent by your software to the WavOut S PDIF device will be routed to the hardware S PDIF output and consequently to the DAT 5 Next let s make sure the S PDIF output format is correct Open the S PDIF page of the control panel software Under Digital Output Format ...

Page 47: ...Play PnP system When a resource conflict is detected it is displayed in the Windows Device Manager The Device Manager places a yellow exclamation point on top of the icon associated with the problem device For an example of how the Device Manager should look when a Delta 410 is successfully installed see the Verifying Windows Driver Installation section of this manual If a yellow exclamation point...

Page 48: ...ws Driver Installation section of this manual It might take more than one PCI slot relocation to find an open IRQ If relocating your card to another PCI slot does not cure the Delta 410 s conflict s then you must do some further investigation to determine the exact nature of the conflict s Again go to the Windows Device Manager highlight the Delta 410 or other devices with conflicts and click the ...

Page 49: ...utton below the Interrupt Request IRQ radio button at the top of the Device Manager page I O addresses are displayed as 16 bit hexadecimal numbers therefore one might note that an address of 300h the default address of the Midiman Midisport 8x8 s for instance will read 0300 in this list If scanning all the resource lists in the Device Manager does not provide an answer or clue to the resource conf...

Page 50: ...device one by one It sounds sinister but it is the best way to insure that each device configures properly To remove a device from the Device Manager right click My Computer and select Properties Click the Hardware tab then select Device Manager Locate the device in the list clicking on the sign opens the list for that device category highlight it then select Uninstall from the Actions menu This i...

Page 51: ... that the mixer s faders solo and mute controls are set up properly Possible Cause 5 Improper connections of the audio accessories Verify that the Delta 410 analog audio outputs are properly connected to a digital mix deck or external mixer amplifier or the S PDIF Out is connected to an external digital audio device capable of receiving S PDIF Problem No visual activity on Audio Input volume VU me...

Page 52: ... a card calibration sometimes called profiling the first time you use the software with a new audio card Possible Cause 4 Some accelerated graphics cards use excessive amounts of system bandwidth preventing the recording buffer of an audio card from keeping up with demand This can cause clicks in the recording Reducing or turning off the graphics card s graphics acceleration feature often resolves...

Page 53: ...onse 22Hz 22kHz 0 2 0 4dB 48kHz 22Hz 40kHz 0 2 0 7dB 96kHz Input Impedance 10k ohms minimum Input Connectors RCA gold plated Output Connectors RCA gold plated Digital Audio Digital Input Format S PDIF coaxial Digital Input Sample Rate 32kHz to 100kHz Digital Output Format S PDIF coaxial or AES EBU data stream over S PDIF coaxial Digital Output Sample Rate 8kHz to 100kHz Adapter Resource Requiremen...

Page 54: ...ording device The in line design has the recording and monitoring sections in line within each channel module so that each channel has two line inputs The recording section is distinguished by its bussing system which takes the recording channel signal through a summing matrix to multiple outputs usually in multiples of eight It could be said that an 8 buss system is designed for 8 track recording...

Page 55: ... that by offering an alt out which is an alternate stereo buss or output When selecting alt out on a channel it mutes that channel to the stereo buss and redirects it to the alt out buss This could be viewed as a 2 buss system and can be used effectively for recording purposes In our Typical Setup 1 and 2 in the previous section we used pre amps to handle the recording A line mixer that simply rec...

Page 56: ...t requires repair because of user misuse or regular wear it will assess a fair repair or replacement fee The customer will have the option to pay this fee and have the unit repaired and returned or not pay this fee and have the unit returned unrepaired The remedy for breach of this limited warranty shall not include any other damages MIDIMAN will not be liable for consequential special indirect or...

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